Question on Blue Bullets Diameter

[Yondering]

On 9/14/2019 at 4:58 PM, looking4reloadingdeals said:

How do you recover your bullets? 

 

Hollow points are pretty easy to recover (if they actually expand) - I use either a row of water filled milk jugs, or a stack of soaked wet paper. The water jugs are the easiest and most portable. For most 9mm pistol hollow points, a row of 4 or 5 jugs is adequate, and the majority are recovered in the 3rd jug.

 

Solid bullets are harder to catch because the penetrate so much further. Unfortunately I don't have an easy and reliable answer, but this is what I do:

Sometimes I'll use water jugs, but will set up a long row of 10-12 of them. Most of the time I'm just recovering them from my backstop, which is made of large wood chunks. The wood gets broken up over time and does a good job of stopping bullets without damaging them too much. The downside with this method of course is bullets impacting other bullets already in the berm. I typically shoot a bunch of rounds and hope to recover a few of them with this method. 

A stack of dry paper (like thick catalogs etc) can work, but can also damage the bullets and the coating so you have to use it for the right applications and understand what you're seeing.

[Yondering]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:43 PM, BryceA said:

 

TL;DR: I've had lots of leading issues and most of the blue bullets, even in .355", are good to go in my most stubborn barrel.

 

Perhaps a bit late here but I had the same question with the blue bullets. I have a P10F that is a bit oversized (.3565) and was getting a huge lead mess with both .356" and .357" Hi-Tek coated bullets. Not being all that excited to fool with .358 bullets I tried blues out of desperation, hoping their different coating would make the difference and just  ordered samples of the 125 and 147 RN profiles in .355" because I didn't notice the 'Special Profile' page. Much to my surprise, no leading! However, they had to be loaded really short so next I ordered the 125 RN, 125 TC, and 135 TC in .356". It turns out the 125 TC's gave some minor leading but the 135's were great. I'm still working on accuracy, the 135 TC in .356 were the best but I still have some work to do.

 

Regardless what the coating is (Hi-Tek or powder coat), if you use an undersized bullet for the bore, you are getting gas cutting in the bullets and lead smoke in the air. It may not build up lead in your barrel (powder coating actually does a good job wiping out lead from previous rounds), but it's definitely not ideal. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Yondering

[Miranda]

4 hours ago, Yondering said:

.... cut...

I try to keep that in mind when reading comments about how someone's coated bullet "shoots great and doesn't lead". 

 

I like this line. 

while I was chasing good cast bullets ,I read a lot of comments.

After an amount of trying ideas made in those comments...

I definitely learned to keep my results in mind when reading any recommendation.

 I did try a small number of the ideas with variable success.

 

some times you just don't know...

I wish I remember who said he likes plain old beeswax and would still be using it

if he could get it at a lower price.

 

I had some, tried it...

am not sure how good the results.

pressing the bullets into the case got a couple of small rolls of wax at the case mouth

at least one 'roll' stopped the slide from battery.

my memory was that beeswax smoked a lot

I also did not try larger bullet diameter. that was tried  after I quit using beeswax

I worked on improving my bullet lube delivery

 

cheers

miranda

 

 

[Denato1]

Yondering, your posts are great. Visual evidence and descriptions of what your seeing is awsome. I have a shadow 2 and I am still Playing with bullet diameter 10000 rounds in. I just switched to .356 frome blue bullets but might have to try .357 from them. I am very impressed with your Information.

[GMP]

15 hours ago, Yondering said:

 

Regardless what the coating is (Hi-Tek or powder coat), if you use an undersized bullet for the bore, you are getting gas cutting in the bullets and lead smoke in the air. It may not build up lead in your barrel (powder coating actually does a good job wiping out lead from previous rounds), but it's definitely not ideal. 

 

Good stuff.  So you are saying that the majority of smoke, when encountered, from coated bullets is actually from lead and not the coating itself?   Interesting.  Its been noted that some coated bullets produce a burning plastic smell so it would seem logical to assume coating is at least part of it.   Unfortunately recovering bullets is almost impossible here with the lack of private property to shoot on where a trap setup would be possible. 

 

Side question, any idea what Federal uses on their factory syntech USPSA ammo?  I picked up a few with brass after a match and pulled them.  First, the tension to the brass was very strong and it took a lot of swings with the puller to separate.  Next, the dia was .3545 for the 9mm,  the seated length being sized down from .355.  Last, the coating was very thick and tough, nothing like the majority of the thin Hitech coated stuff available that scratches off easily.   My buddy shot some of this in the past with no abnormal smoke or leading in a G19, despite the dia., but to be fair I do not know the exact size of the barrel.

[Yondering]

9 hours ago, Denato1 said:

Yondering, your posts are great. Visual evidence and descriptions of what your seeing is awsome. I have a shadow 2 and I am still Playing with bullet diameter 10000 rounds in. I just switched to .356 frome blue bullets but might have to try .357 from them. I am very impressed with your Information.

 

I'm glad to be of help, thanks for the comments. There's a lot to learn about this stuff and I'm still playing with it too and experimenting all the time; over 1,000 lb of coated bullets down range now and I'm still learning new things and improving my processes. 

[Yondering]

5 hours ago, GMP said:

 

Good stuff.  So you are saying that the majority of smoke, when encountered, from coated bullets is actually from lead and not the coating itself?   Interesting.  Its been noted that some coated bullets produce a burning plastic smell so it would seem logical to assume coating is at least part of it.   Unfortunately recovering bullets is almost impossible here with the lack of private property to shoot on where a trap setup would be possible. 

 

Side question, any idea what Federal uses on their factory syntech USPSA ammo?  I picked up a few with brass after a match and pulled them.  First, the tension to the brass was very strong and it took a lot of swings with the puller to separate.  Next, the dia was .3545 for the 9mm,  the seated length being sized down from .355.  Last, the coating was very thick and tough, nothing like the majority of the thin Hitech coated stuff available that scratches off easily.   My buddy shot some of this in the past with no abnormal smoke or leading in a G19, despite the dia., but to be fair I do not know the exact size of the barrel.

 

Yes definitely lead causing the majority of the smoke. I'm not 100% sure about Hi-Tek coating, but the polyester powder coating I use does not smoke much, if at all, when it's burned. I capture and re-melt most of the bullets fired on my home range so I've burned up a lot of coating, and while it does make a sweet plastic burning smell as you mention, it doesn't really smoke much. If there is visible smoke with coated bullets, it's most likely lead. If it's powder smoke it'll be sooty black, but lead smoke is gray. If your rounds are smoking a lot from lead, sometimes you'll see a gray residue build up on the front of the gun; that's lead. If it's just powder smoke it should be sort of dirty brown, and that's pretty normal.

 

I don't know what Federal uses, but I'd sure be interested to find out and learn their coating process as well. It seems to be reasonably well done, and obviously works well for large volumes. Federal had that "Nyclad" ammo about 20-ish years ago, so the current stuff may be some evolution of that process, but that's just my guess. The "Nyclad" stuff was presumably a nylon coating, while most powder coating used on bullets is polyester (epoxy powder coatings exist too but are not as good for bullets apparently). My experience matches yours that powder coating is tougher than Hi-Tek; the HT stuff seems to work OK when done right but I like using powder coating since it's pretty forgiving of variations and mistakes. 

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Yondering, your posts are great. Visual evidence and descriptions of what your seeing is awsome. I have a shadow 2 and I am still Playing with bullet diameter 10000 rounds in. I just switched to .356 frome blue bullets but might have to try .357 from them. I am very impressed with your Information.

How are you able to get .357s? Iv only seen .355, .356, and .358


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[Denato1]

8 hours ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:

How are you able to get .357s? Iv only seen .355, .356, and .358


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If you email them right before you place the order and request sizing they can usually accommodate within reason. I will probably calling them this coming week to try and get the bullets sized to .357. No guarantee yet.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

If you email them right before you place the order and request sizing they can usually accommodate within reason. I will probably calling them this coming week to try and get the bullets sized to .357. No guarantee yet.

Awesome thanks. I think I’m going to start the .356” but it’s good to know I have the option of .357 just in case. That’s what I’m using now without problems


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[Yondering]

8 hours ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:

Awesome thanks. I think I’m going to start the .356” but it’s good to know I have the option of .357 just in case. That’s what I’m using now without problems


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As long as .357" or .358" loaded rounds plunk in your barrel, there is zero reason to start with .356", and significant potential downside with lead exposure. You aren't doing yourself any favors starting with a small diameter. 

[Miranda]

 

when you are putting 357 diametervlead bullets into a 9mm brass case...

get and use a 38 powder funnel.

If you are running a lee FCD, remove it.

Lee's plain ole taper crimp is good.

I had to sort brass by headstamp, with FC cases as the target.

 

here is the longer explanation

A 9mm case is not expanded enough by any of the three 9mm

funnels I have; RCBS, Dillon, or Lee.

the bullet bottom will be swaged.

I recall that the lee 38 short expander/funnel was the one I used.

 

an aside about that...

I also have a memory of putting the short funnel on a lathe and polishing it to get it a little smaller...

I also made a couple of expanders to refine for seating depth.

so the polishing might not be required on the lee funnel, as I may be crossing memories...

 

I like the lee 9mm FCD and it swages  357 lead bullets.

use it and then flip the cartridge nose down... most times the bullet will fall out.

The taper crimp seems to just remove the bell.

 

I tried the mixed brass I had been running.

I will state these all were crimped between .378 to .379.

some didn't plunk...  all the FC cases plunked.  most win plunked.

Others not mentioned didn't plunk and the only headstamp

I remember was S&B... I think because it was a surprise.

 

The non-plunkers all were too fat where the bullet was in, holding the case.

In a rifle cartridge I'd call it the neck.

case wall thickness can make a difference if you are checking with a case gauge.

some chambers will not care.

 

luck!

miranda

 

 

[Kenstone]

14 hours ago, Miranda said:

 

when you are putting 357 diametervlead bullets into a 9mm brass case...

get and use a 38 powder funnel.

If you are running a lee FCD, remove it.

Lee's plain ole taper crimp is good.

I had to sort brass by headstamp, with FC cases as the target.

 

I tried the mixed brass I had been running.

I will state these all were crimped between .378 to .379.

some didn't plunk...  all the FC cases plunked.  most win plunked.

Others not mentioned didn't plunk and the only headstamp

I remember was S&B... I think because it was a surprise.

 

case wall thickness can make a difference if you are checking with a case gauge.

some chambers will not care.

 

luck!

miranda

 

 

 

Here we are on page 4, seems like we have gone full circle on this subject more than once...

 

Here's something I posted on page one:

"I never experienced leading or slugged a barrel, the reason I load/shoot "over-sized" bullets is for better accuracy/groups, proven thru testing.

I buy 124gr, 0.358" dia. 38/357 RN Blue Bullets for 9mm, no special dia. order required.

https://www.thebluebullets.com/product-p/1000-147rn-38.htm

 

I have LEE push thru sizing dies sizes 0.356"/0.357"/0.358" ($12each) to resize those bullets depending on the gun/barrel.

The "tightest" chambered/shortest throated 9mm barrel I have is a Storm-Lake and I have to use thinner cases to squeeze 0.358 dia bullets in that one, as well as a shorter OAL.

 

I use a 38S&W expander ($3) in a 9mm Lee powder thru the expander die, a direct swap, so the over-sized bullets are not swaged down by the case when seated.

https://leeprecision.com/pm-expan-plg-38-s-w.html

 

You might get lucky by just buying those bullets, seating them, without bullet resizing, into any random case, expanded with a standard expansion plug, not get any bullet swaging, and plunk in every 9mm barrel you have. 

If that happens...go out and buy a Lottery ticket."

 

Info that seems to be echoed over and over here.

carry-on,

Edited September 20, 2019 by Kenstone

[Miranda]

10 hours ago, Kenstone said:

 

Here we are on page 4, seems like we have gone full circle on this subject more than once...

 

Here's something I posted on page one:

"I never experienced leading or slugged a barrel, the reason I load/shoot "over-sized" bullets is for better accuracy/groups, proven thru testing.

I buy 124gr, 0.358" dia. 38/357 RN Blue Bullets for 9mm, no special dia. order required.

https://www.thebluebullets.com/product-p/1000-147rn-38.htm

 

I have LEE push thru sizing dies sizes 0.356"/0.357"/0.358" ($12each) to resize those bullets depending on the gun/barrel.

The "tightest" chambered/shortest throated 9mm barrel I have is a Storm-Lake and I have to use thinner cases to squeeze 0.358 dia bullets in that one, as well as a shorter OAL.

 

I use a 38S&W expander ($3) in a 9mm Lee powder thru the expander die, a direct swap, so the over-sized bullets are not swaged down by the case when seated.

https://leeprecision.com/pm-expan-plg-38-s-w.html

 

You might get lucky by just buying those bullets, seating them, without bullet resizing, into any random case, expanded with a standard expansion plug, not get any bullet swaging, and plunk in every 9mm barrel you have. 

If that happens...go out and buy a Lottery ticket."

 

Info that seems to be echoed over and over here.

carry-on,

 

Hi kenstone,

repeat repeat repeat.

do a search. it is all stuff I've said before also.

I know you said it, some times when it gets said makes a difference.

 

remember, this  thread started with a question that does not have a short and easy answer.

 

I would loved to have found such a post as yours when I was seating the fat bottomed girls in 9mm cases.

I made 3 expander funnels before I made a good one.

and THEN i found that lee made one that is close to my good one.

 

the expander is half the battle. the cases have to allow fat bullets to fit inside 9mm chambers too.

 

victor