Retreats in a stage

[broadside72]

Some folks balk at having to retreat for portions of a stage. Are they really that bad?

 

RMs and MDs at some locals have expressed safety concerns as well. But I'm of the mindset that they are unavoidable and should be practiced and are perfectly reasonable to have.

 

I do not like stages that are 100% shot in retreat but having to move into a space or two and back out 4-6 ft seems reasonable to me.

[Sarge]

Well we shot a classifier yesterday that had uprange movement so I would guess you could say it may be mandatory at times.

  RM’s and MD’s need to let the kids play and stop being so paranoid. So far this month alone I have read about fear of uprange movement, uprange starts, targets near 180, certain holsters, running too much, etc. won’t be long until we stand in a box at low ready and shoot at paper only. Moving the feet will be penalized under the new FTBS rule. Failure to be safe.

[broadside72]

I don't disagree at all. I kept telling them it's part of the game. There are DQ rules if someone is unsafe.

I just don't want my stage designs ignored because they often have retreats as options

[Amerflyer48]

4 hours ago, Sarge said:

  RM’s and MD’s need to let the kids play and stop being so paranoid. So far this month alone I have read about fear of uprange movement, uprange starts, targets near 180, certain holsters, running too much, etc. won’t be long until we stand in a box at low ready and shoot at paper only.

 They have that already, its called GSSF so they would need CZSF,S&WSF,CSF,SIGSF and PCCSF to round it out,..

 

or we could all go USPASSA "United States Practical Air Soft Shooting Association 

 

They would have a heart attack if they saw some of the things that got done in the early days of this game..

[Blackstone45]

I shoot in a region where you get DQ'd if the muzzle is pointed at anything but the berm. And that includes during the reload, gotta keep the gun flat during that

[JonasAberg]

In my opinion, retreats are not any less safe than anything else in this sport. Running around with loaded weapons can be very dangerous but also quite safe as long as you know what you are doing.

 

Usually, if there are new shooters and there is a stage with shots close to 180, a door or retreat or similar, that is usually pointed out as something to be aware of. More often than not, new guys are also given tips on how to deal with it so everything is done safely. Just throwing inexperienced shooters into situations like that, that's where you'll have problems.

[IHAVEGAS]

14 hours ago, broadside72 said:

 

Some folks balk at having to retreat for portions of a stage. Are they really that bad?

 

I really, really, hate it when a nervous new shooter points a gun at me. Really hate it. To help with that, you can preach it at the new shooters meeting, preach it on the stage description, and design "training" stages where running backwards with a gun happens with the whole squad watching with a clear view. At club matches I've occasionally asked the nervous new guy to demonstrate to me (with his hand) how he was going to point the gun before we would do make ready. 

 

I have no problems with backwards movement as part of a stage and I think it can add to the fun and challenge, but I think you have to be proactive about dealing with the person who might put you and your squad at unreasonable risk. 

 

[Nevadazielmeister]

Has anyone ever been seriously injured during a retreat stage?

[Nathanb]

Designing stages you can only do so much. I love the retreat as a stage concept. I use it frequently. I just design in a way there is a s#!t ton of room available. But there are people who make me really nervous doing it 

[Blackstone45]

Do you guys have any kind of safety course like the Canada black badge course that you have to pass before shooting USPSA?

[broadside72]

Do you guys have any kind of safety course like the Canada black badge course that you have to pass before shooting USPSA?

My local range has class for new to USPSA and part of it includes retreating and going around a wall. You need to pass that class and not get a DQ your first match or you take it again

[igofast85]

Do you guys have any kind of safety course like the Canada black badge course that you have to pass before shooting USPSA?

Not nation wide, but some sections/clubs require some kind of a safety class.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

Has anyone ever been seriously injured during a retreat stage?

 

Not to my knowledge. Unless you count R.O.'s being scared out of years of their lives. 

[perttime]

It is just another set of skills - both for competitor and RO.

 

There's videos around where the RO was asleep and ended up between competitor and targets, or failed to stay out of the way of the retreating competitor.

[ehowell12]

All of these things are parts of the game that make USPSA what it is. After a while the typical move left, move, right, move downrange gets stale, and an uprange start or two really makes a match unique and fun. Of course there are more aspects to consider in stage design other than just moving the start position - RO safety, what the uprange movement consists of - move+shoot or just move.

Additionally, it always helps to really coach newer shooters through these stages to keep everyone safe. These types of stages are almost always seen at majors - it could be bad if a newer shooter saw this for the first time at a major where there's typically much less help to be given in stage planning and how to tackle the less common skill tests. 

[motosapiens]

4 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:

Do you guys have any kind of safety course like the Canada black badge course that you have to pass before shooting USPSA?

 

no, because it's not necessary. It's just emotional feel-good stuff.

[Hi-Power Jack]

4 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:

Do you have a safety course you have to pass before shooting USPSA?

 

When I started 30 years ago, my local club required it.

 

Now, most clubs seem to just ask if anybody's a newbie - and then they're

assigned to a special squad for instruction and safety reasons.

[Sparky]

I started shooting USPSA in 1979 or whatever it was called back then.  If I remember correctly we did not have

any retreat stages.  I don't really like them, but don't hate them either.  Like it's been stated here, it's part of USPSA

and as long as the stage is designed properly it's as safe as going forward.

[ATLDave]

Uprange movement is part of the game.  Learning to move uprange safely and efficiently is a skill.  Best way to learn and maintain that skill is to have regular practice at it.  A local club that never has uprange movement is doing its shooters no favors (they will probably DQ or have some train wreck if their first exposure to it is at a bigger match), nor is it helping the sport overall (again, the shooters will be less safe at other matches that throw novel-to-them uprange movement at them in a less comfortable environment).  

[broadside72]

I am not talking about 100% retreat, I am not a fan of those either, especially as an RO.

 

My main question was about having to back out of areas 4-8 feet where the otherwise main flow is L<->R or downrange. 

[IHAVEGAS]

3 hours ago, perttime said:

There's videos around where the RO was asleep and ended up between competitor and targets, or failed to stay out of the way of the retreating competitor.

 

My only real gripe about pcc. If the person has a gun so quiet that you have to be in his underwear for the last shot you are going to be hosed if he does something unexpected. 

 

Other thing, the guy with the camera, the guy scoring ahead, and the overly ambitious paster, all need to be nagged into staying well away. 

[Bagellord]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

the guy scoring ahead

 

That guy should actually be helping the guy with the timer watch the shooter...

[thermobollocks]

Turning up the sensitivity of the timer helps.

[perttime]

20 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

My only real gripe about pcc. If the person has a gun so quiet that you have to be in his underwear for the last shot you are going to be hosed if he does something unexpected. 

 

Other thing, the guy with the camera, the guy scoring ahead, and the overly ambitious paster, all need to be nagged into staying well away. 

When the competitor is going to retreat, he/she is not firing the last shots before it.

 

I've RO'd only one stage where the competitors started downrange, retreated, and then moved downrange again. I'd start the competitor, and then start walking back while he/she was shooting the first targets. At another stage, the competitors moved downrange, retreated, moved to the side and moved downrange again. No need to go near the competitor just before the retreat. No trouble getting the last shots of PCC either.

[IHAVEGAS]

20 hours ago, perttime said:

When the competitor is going to retreat, he/she is not firing the last shots before it.

 

 

Usually. I have given reshoots to shooters who chose to dash backwards for the last target through a port (deliberate plan) and seen others get reshoots when they chose to come back to an overlooked target. 

 

If you could count on usually things would be simpler, otherwise for the super quiet guns you need to have the timer in the shooters personal space for the "last" up range shot and if he remembers a target or has a planned move that surprises you (or just wants to deliberatly bump you so he gets a reshoot) you are screwed. Not much of an issue except for the rare guy who has a mouse fart gun. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by IHAVEGAS