"The mysteries of Virginia Count"

[StealthyBlagga]

The premise of this USPSA article is that people hate Virginia Count because they are stupid and don't understand how it works.

 

Dear USPSA - you are WRONG. We hate Virginia Count because the idea is asinine. The whole raison d'etre of this sport is testing self-defense skills, and hard-wiring the shooter to stop solving the problem before it is properly solved is totally counter to this purpose. IMHO the only reason it exists is because someone in Virginia thought it up and USPSA were not smart enough to strangle the stupid idea at birth, and I guess because "invented here/ 'murica". IPSC does some dumb things, but mandating Comstock scoring on all stages is something with which I vehemently agree.

 

Call to action: MDs, if you agree with me that VC is dumb, please stop using those classifiers. Maybe if the data stops flowing in for VC classifiers USPSA will retire them.

 

I know, "it's a sport, not tactical training", blah blah blah... a guy can dream can't he?

Edited September 2, 2019 by StealthyBlagga

[jcc7x7]

Laughing and agree!

[aandabooks]

I guess I'm a little different in this Virginia count debate.  I actually kind of like Virginia count stages.  Having a set number of rounds that I can shoot and having the pressure of knowing I have to get it done in that amount of shots or eat the misses is good.   Puts the pressure on.  

 

I normally shoot open and spray bullets all over the place so VC is a nice change of pace.  I wouldn't want more than one stage of it per match.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, aandabooks said:

I guess I'm a little different in this Virginia count debate.  I actually kind of like Virginia count stages.  Having a set number of rounds that I can shoot and having the pressure of knowing I have to get it done in that amount of shots or eat the misses is good.   Puts the pressure on.  

 

I normally shoot open and spray bullets all over the place so VC is a nice change of pace.  I wouldn't want more than one stage of it per match.

Exactly. VC has its uses

[stick]

Virginia Count has its place in USPSA.  We all know that we are given a puzzle (the stage) that we have to solve.  VC adds a dynamic or twist to the stage.  I'm not saying all stages need to VC, but one here and there is a good change of pace.

[egd5]

The Raison d"etre is, it's a game. And you need to solve the problem of being accurate quickly. I like the variety every so often.

[igofast85]

OP is right. VC is silly and pointless. Extra shots inherently incur a time penalty, no need for more rules (that often get screwed up).

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[RJH]

I like some Virgina count and definitely think it should be kept in USPSA

[ATLDave]

I'm OK with the existence of Virginia count, but I have always been a bit puzzled by its predominance in classifiers, when that very poorly represents even the stand-and-shoot skills of the broader sport.  As for its practicality, I think there is an argument to be made that, in a self-defense situation, having a miss (which means a stray bullet somewhere) heavily penalized may be quite practical.  

[Bagellord]

USPSA at this point is a game. I see no point in trying to treat it as anything but a game, if you actually want to compete and not just use it as a personal skill test. VC therefore has its use in order to add another element to the game. If people would actually pay attention to what's going on, and read the rules, instead of just holding a timer or punching thing on the iPad/Nook, this wouldn't be an issue.

[Maximis228]

I find those who complain about VC to be those who dont practice. Same goes for standards...

[broadside72]

I have been tempted to make some of my 20-26 round stages be Virginia just to irritate people  

[MikeBurgess]

I like VC stages, I also like Fixed Time stages, so I know I'm weird.

 Getting rid of VC means getting rid of 2 string stages because, just shoot all you need the in the first string. 

[HoMiE]

I think VC demonstrates on demand ability vs spray and pray so I’m all for it. 

[motosapiens]

the only real use for VC is for stages with multiple strings or multiple engagements of the same targets (before and after a reload, for example), to prevent stacking. it makes sense for that. it's stupid for stages where you only engage each target once.

[ampleworks]

VC forces you to think rather than rely on muscle memory to just have a rooster tail of brass flying out of your gun. If you cannot follow instructions on the COF then you should be penalized accordingly.

 

Can You Count is a perfect example of this. Plenty of people practice bill drills but how many of them still end up with an extra shot and hit because the failed to think?

[motosapiens]

14 minutes ago, ampleworks said:

VC forces you to think rather than rely on muscle memory to just have a rooster tail of brass flying out of your gun. If you cannot follow instructions on the COF then you should be penalized accordingly.

 

Can You Count is a perfect example of this. Plenty of people practice bill drills but how many of them still end up with an extra shot and hit because the failed to think?

 

wut?

[Whitefish]

On 9/3/2019 at 7:38 AM, MikeBurgess said:

I also like Fixed Time stages, so I know I'm weird.

Yes, we have all learned about your affinity for fixed time stages.  The redeeming quality of fixed time classifiers is that the classifier percentage is based on your ability to maximize total points in the alloted time, not an elusive ever rising hit factor. The available total points, say 90 on an 18 rd max fixed time stage, is always going to stay the same and your classifier percentage is based on how many of those available points you get. 100% or 90 points is not going to change, unlike hit factors that always seem to go up these days.

[ima45dv8]

46 minutes ago, ampleworks said:

 

Can You Count is a perfect example of this. Plenty of people practice bill drills but how many of them still end up with an extra shot and hit because the failed to think?

 

That is exactly why CYC was designed with a 5 round requirement. Maybe it should have been named, "Can You Count and Think On The Fly".

[motosapiens]

23 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

 

That is exactly why CYC was designed with a 5 round requirement. Maybe it should have been named, "Can You Count and Think On The Fly".

 

or maybe it should have been named 'can you spend 20 seconds visualizing 5 round strings so you can shoot them without counting or thinking'.

 

thinking while shooting is slow.

[MikeBurgess]

24 minutes ago, Whitefish said:

Yes, we have all learned about your affinity for fixed time stages.  The redeeming quality of fixed time classifiers is that the classifier percentage is based on your ability to maximize total points in the alloted time, not an elusive ever rising hit factor. The available total points, say 90 on an 18 rd max fixed time stage, is always going to stay the same and your classifier percentage is based on how many of those available points you get. 100% or 90 points is not going to change, unlike hit factors that always seem to go up these days.

not quite true any more, with the recent updates to the classifier HHF's many of the fixed time classifiers now have lower HHF depending on division, some like Revo are much lower.

[Whitefish]

3 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

not quite true any more, with the recent updates to the classifier HHF's many of the fixed time classifiers now have lower HHF depending on division, some like Revo are much lower.

I stand corrected. I did not realize the HHF updates affected fixed time stages. Trust USPSA to take something simple and make it more complicated. 

[Racinready300ex]

I don't really see a need for VC, I'd be find if it were gone.

[BZ919]

I have been tempted to make some of my 20-26 round stages be Virginia just to irritate people [emoji846] 

That would be an interesting stage, but challenging to score. Plus VC is only allowed on Standards, Classifiers, Speed Shoots, or Short Courses.


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[ima45dv8]

10 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

or maybe it should have been named 'can you spend 20 seconds visualizing 5 round strings so you can shoot them without counting or thinking'.

 

thinking while shooting is slow.

Maybe...