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Bench

Smoking like a diesel going up hill in the morning

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...well not really, but there's plenty of smoke plus leading in the barrel (leading noticeable after ~100 rounds(!!)). Using a dental pick confirms the issue that it certainly is leading. Here's the set up at this point: M&P Pro 5" stock barrel with Gallant 125 RN (version 2) over Titegroup 3.7 at OAL of 1.145 and crimp of .378". The smoking issue has been present over time with other Gallant bullets at various OAL and Titegroup charges and I recently began to pay attention to leading which is the major issue to me. These Gallants measure a fat .356".

 

So where do I start to begin to eliminate the smoking issue and following probably the leading issue...bullets, powder, or barrel. I haven't slugged the barrel yet but there shouldn't be an issue with this stock barrel and .356" bullets.

 

Thanks All!!

 

Bench.

 

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Friends don't let friends use Titegroup with coated bullets. I bet if you were to capture the fired bullets somehow, you'd notice ablation of the coating and exposed lead.

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Posted (edited)

Most likely at some point during your loading process you are damaging the coating

not enough flair

to much crimp

Tightgroup does smoke and is hot /known to affect coatings

pull a couple bullets and check

 

Edited by AHI

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1 hour ago, AHI said:

Most likely at some point during your loading process you are damaging the coating

not enough flair

to much crimp

Tightgroup does smoke and is hot /known to affect coatings

pull a couple bullets and check

 

Already checked that and the crimp isn't the issue. What's a better choice over Titegroup?

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1 hour ago, hceuterpe said:

Friends don't let friends use Titegroup with coated bullets.

I've been considering a change to Sport Pistol which seems to be the current subject of adoration. Any better choices?

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Friends don't let friends use Titegroup with coated bullets. I bet if you were to capture the fired bullets somehow, you'd notice ablation of the coating and exposed lead.
Purely anecdotal but I've used Titegroup with thousands of coated bullets without any leading issues whatsoever.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

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I been running titegroup with coated bullets for awhile. The smoke is very minimal. Dont have any leading issues.

Eggleston 147, Ibejiheads 165, and just recently Summer Enterprises 145. All .357"

I did notice we got some smoking when I used a pound of Titegroup that was about 10 years old.


I have read on here several times, that people would have leading issues, they would go up a size and leading would go away. I dont understand that, personally my thinking is that it would make it worst, but not according to reports.

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For years when we all shot lead bullets without coatings, we always went .001 to .002 over bore size

That sealed the bore and bullet and usually stopped any leading and made for better accuracy.

 

Some how when the coatings started to appear everybody forgot that, maybe the coatings helped enough to slow down the leading.

 

FWIW I shoot .357 or .358 out of all my 9mm's with Hytec coating and leading is usually not a problem and accuracy is better that with .355-356 dia bullets

 

You do have play with the flare, seems that to little or too much and you scrap coating off which causes lots of problems with smoke

leading and accuracy.

 

Just recently I tried to change things a little because I was getting some creep on the 7 and 8th round in a revolver and made things worse.

The creeping went away but tumbling and leading resulted.  Went back to original settings and leading and tumbling went away.

 

Easiest way to find out if your gun likes a wider bullet is to buy a 100 round sample pack of wider bullets. You can slug your barrel but ultimately

you still have to test fire the wider diameter to see how accuracy is and if they're leading the bore.

 

Brownell's sells a neat tool called a "Lewis lead remover" for getting the lead out of the barrel.

 

 

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Alliant e3 is a super clean powder that works perfectly with poly coated bullets.  If you like N320 burn rates, go with Sport Pistol, or Solo 1000.

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11 hours ago, George16 said:

Sport pistol was specifically formulated for coated bullets.

If I can find it locally I'll give that a try with the same bullets just to eliminate the powder as a factor.

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10 hours ago, anonymouscuban said:

Purely anecdotal but I've used Titegroup with thousands of coated bullets without any leading issues whatsoever.

I certainly wish that was my "problem"🤣

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10 hours ago, 223to45 said:

I have read on here several times, that people would have leading issues, they would go up a size and leading would go away.
 

Bullet size is going to be one of the areas to investigate after I try a powder swap.

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4 hours ago, jcc7x7 said:

For years when we all shot lead bullets without coatings, we always went .001 to .002 over bore size

That sealed the bore and bullet and usually stopped any leading and made for better accuracy.

 

 

Brownell's sells a neat tool called a "Lewis lead remover" for getting the lead out of the barrel.

 

 

Slugging the barrel is one of the items on the list. Thanks for the Bownell's post!

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2 hours ago, zzt said:

Alliant e3 is a super clean powder that works perfectly with poly coated bullets.  If you like N320 burn rates, go with Sport Pistol, or Solo 1000.

Gonna' try to find Sport Pistol locally first...

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1 hour ago, superdude said:

Any reason you can't use plated or jacketed bullets? 

I'll stay away from plated...and I'm too cheap for jacketed especially when buying in bulk.

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5 minutes ago, Bench said:

I'll stay away from plated...and I'm too cheap for jacketed especially when buying in bulk.

 

Jacketed aren't as expensive as people think.  RMR has 124 grain FMJ for 8.2¢ each when buying 1000.  115 grain are 7.9¢.

 

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/9mm-355/9mm-124-gr-rmr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose/

 

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/9mm-355/9mm-124-gr-rmr-truncated-cone-flat-point-matchwinner/

 

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/9mm-355/9mm-115-gr-rmr-flat-point-mini-matchwinner/

 

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32 minutes ago, superdude said:

 

They even have a Labor Day sale right now for the 124 Gr FMJ RN. Code is “rmriscapitalist” for 7% off.

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18 hours ago, Bench said:

Already checked that and the crimp isn't the issue. What's a better choice over Titegroup?

 

I like WST for my 9mm.  I use 3.6 grains with 147 Gallant Bullets at 1.135" and have never had an issue with leading.  I am shocked at how clean my barrels are after a match.  Funny, I just bought a pound of Titegroup to play around with for my 147's. 

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TG smokes a bit with coated, especially if it is humid and you are shooting into the sun.  Leading is a bullet hardness , size, or crimp issue. However you could test that theory by just about any slightly slower cooler running powder, see if the problem goes away.
Anything between tightgroup and unique on the burn rate chart.
 

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Just switch powder.
TG is to hot for most coatings.
There will always be folks that say no problems here.
Chang powder.

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4 hours ago, Erick85 said:

 Funny, I just bought a pound of Titegroup to play around with for my 147's. 

You'll probably one of the lucky ones with no issues at all🤣

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3 hours ago, Joe4d said:

 However you could test that theory by just about any slightly slower cooler running powder, see if the problem goes away.
Anything between tightgroup and unique on the burn rate chart.
 

The test will be tomorrow with some new powder, HP-38. Thanks for your post.

Edited by Bench

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41 minutes ago, oteroman said:

Just switch powder.
Chang powder.

Tomorrow will be the test for that with HP-38.

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