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Nemesis or Titan

IDAHOAASHOOTER

By IDAHOAASHOOTER
in 1911-style Pistols

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m700 Calls Shots

m700

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I wonder if Atlas would allow you to visit and go through the shooters needs and help them provide the right gun. I picture Spa music and Mimosas while they size your hand to the right grip monitor your grip on the gun decide on your springs etc

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cheby Calls Shots

cheby

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29 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Of course and I did try different springs. I tried a wide range of recoil and hammer springs along with firing pin stops in an attempt to mitigate the muzzle dip on the Nemesis and I couldn't eliminate the dip with my normal hard grip pressure. The only way I could eliminate the dip is if I gripped the gun with 50% of my normal grip pressure. If I did that then the muzzle would come right back down to level. Like I said, these guns are designed for specific shooters needs. If you don't have a hard grip pressure then the Nemesis will likely track and return to level better for you.

 

The problem with that is its a bitter pill for Type A personality shooters to accept. They all think they are gripping the gun "Hard" when in reality they are not. This is why I suggeste to test drive both and see which one works best for you. 

This sounds counterintuitive. Perhaps I don't fully understand it. Why would the gun dip more with the harder grip? I'd expect opposite.

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CHA-LEE Back From the Dead

CHA-LEE

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56 minutes ago, cheby said:

This sounds counterintuitive. Perhaps I don't fully understand it. Why would the gun dip more with the harder grip? I'd expect opposite.

 

Because that is how physics works. The more weight that is displaced produces more weight to control when it returns. When you have a normal grip pressure the gun muzzle flips fairly high. The extra weight out front helps bring the muzzle back down when the slide snaps forward. If you grip the gun hard the muzzle flip is dramatically reduced but you are still battling the displaced weight up front which is too much weight and results in the muzzle dipping low when the slide snaps forward.

 

For the "Average" grip strength/pressure shooter the Nemesis will usually return back to level more consistently than the Titan. To get a Titan to return directly to level the same way as a Nemesis you MUST grip the gun much harder than what most people use as their "Average" grip pressure.

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CHA-LEE Back From the Dead

CHA-LEE

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1 hour ago, m700 said:

I wonder if Atlas would allow you to visit and go through the shooters needs and help them provide the right gun. I picture Spa music and Mimosas while they size your hand to the right grip monitor your grip on the gun decide on your springs etc

 

Working with the Atlas team to select the correct blaster for YOU is exactly the point. If you are going to spend big money on a high end 2011 why wouldn't you put in some effort up front to ensure that what you are getting is optimal for YOU?

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Chuck Anderson Sees Target

Chuck Anderson

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I used to use a bushing 5" .40 for Limited.  Loved that gun.  After fighting it for way to long I put a test together and borrowed a Sighttracker 5", bull 6" and a 6" Sighttracker.  I expected the 5" I had been shooting would finish best, if only due to experience with it.  After running a set of drills with each gun I ended up selling both my 5" guns and getting a 6" Sighttracker.  It made that much of a difference.  Even with almost no time on the gun, times were faster and hits were better.  It was really hard to argue with.  For me at least that stable front sight did make a difference.  

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cheby Calls Shots

cheby

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45 minutes ago, Chuck Anderson said:

I used to use a bushing 5" .40 for Limited.  Loved that gun.  After fighting it for way to long I put a test together and borrowed a Sighttracker 5", bull 6" and a 6" Sighttracker.  I expected the 5" I had been shooting would finish best, if only due to experience with it.  After running a set of drills with each gun I ended up selling both my 5" guns and getting a 6" Sighttracker.  It made that much of a difference.  Even with almost no time on the gun, times were faster and hits were better.  It was really hard to argue with.  For me at least that stable front sight did make a difference.  

Very interesting. Do you remember what drills you ran?

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Chuck Anderson Sees Target

Chuck Anderson

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6 minutes ago, cheby said:

Very interesting. Do you remember what drills you ran?

Not 100%.  Wasn't anything terribly difficult.  Transition drills, one side of the pit to the other, draw and fire one and two, draw fire one reload one, Bill Drill, and one I picked up from Frank Garcia where you shoot five in the A in five seconds.  Keep moving back until you can't make the time or the hits 3/3.  I figured the transitions and draw would favor the lighter gun, while the Bill Drills and Garcia drill would favor the heavier, longer sight radius guns.  It was pretty much all solidly 6" Sighttracker though.  Two things, my experience only for what it's worth.  I also wasn't using ammo optimized to the 6" guns.  I was using the same 180 gr load that was making 173 in my 5".  My new 6" is not a fan of this.  I actually found the best for me is a 165gr.  I didn't expect that, but you definitely need to test.  

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CHA-LEE Back From the Dead

CHA-LEE

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1 minute ago, Chuck Anderson said:

Not 100%.  Wasn't anything terribly difficult.  Transition drills, one side of the pit to the other, draw and fire one and two, draw fire one reload one, Bill Drill, and one I picked up from Frank Garcia where you shoot five in the A in five seconds.  Keep moving back until you can't make the time or the hits 3/3.  I figured the transitions and draw would favor the lighter gun, while the Bill Drills and Garcia drill would favor the heavier, longer sight radius guns.  It was pretty much all solidly 6" Sighttracker though.  Two things, my experience only for what it's worth.  I also wasn't using ammo optimized to the 6" guns.  I was using the same 180 gr load that was making 173 in my 5".  My new 6" is not a fan of this.  I actually found the best for me is a 165gr.  I didn't expect that, but you definitely need to test.  

 

Your last sentence says the most. There is no getting around needing to test this stuff out yourself to find the best setup for YOU. There is way too much forum yip yapping about which gun config is the best and not enough live fire testing to actually see which setup works better. Find local shooters with guns in the configurations you are interested in and ask them to test drive their guns. Use the same ammo across all tests so that isn't another variable to deal with. Basically, put in the effort and figure it out.   

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Mike21STI Sees Sights

Mike21STI

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9 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Of course and I did try different springs. I tried a wide range of recoil and hammer springs along with firing pin stops in an attempt to mitigate the muzzle dip on the Nemesis and I couldn't eliminate the dip with my normal hard grip pressure. The only way I could eliminate the dip is if I gripped the gun with 50% of my normal grip pressure. If I did that then the muzzle would come right back down to level. Like I said, these guns are designed for specific shooters needs. If you don't have a hard grip pressure then the Nemesis will likely track and return to level better for you.

 

The problem with that is its a bitter pill for Type A personality shooters to accept. They all think they are gripping the gun "Hard" when in reality they are not. This is why I suggeste to test drive both and see which one works best for you. 

Makes sense, thanks for the details.  I picked up a new cheely on his xwf frame and like it a lot.  I was thinking about playing with the springs but probably don't need to as I shot more alphas in my last match than usual.  

 

I was deciding between a nemesis and the cheely and ended up going with the cheely.  I'm happy with my decision but still curious to see how the nemesis shoots compared to my new one.  

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MacLethal Sees Sights

MacLethal

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Posted

I like the idea of the nemesis and have had a chance to shoot a couple of them.. Absolutely love them.. Berger Precision makes one as well and is building one for me this winter, it’s a damn nice gun and shoots easily as good or better IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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tacomandood Sees Sights

tacomandood

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/31/2019 at 4:38 AM, IDAHOAASHOOTER said:

A really good local shooter AJ gave me some insight as well a few weeks back. Guess I just wanted to hear what other experienced shooters had to say on the topic. 

Can you elaborate? I'm in the exact same boat as you right now, where I just haven't been having as much fun with shooting my Chaos in Open as I thought I would. The Nemesis is the gun I've really wanted all along, and should have just gone with one of those to start. 

 

However, I was talking with some of the guys around here and they were telling me that you really have to shoot both to decide, for the same reasons Charlie mentioned above. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone around here that owns a Nemesis and I've never shot a sight tracker gun before to really know if I'd like it or not. Kinda makes me hesitant to blow $5000+, wait 4-6 months, and then end up not liking it. 

 

And that's another thing, I feel stupid for not ordering another gun from them sooner. I was expecting about a 2 month wait, and now they just updated their site to show lead times are 4-5 months just for their standard models. I'm guessing that they're getting a lot more orders in now that we're coming close to the end of shooting season, but I don't really wanna go 4-5 months without any kind of shooting or practice. 😔

Edited by tacomandood
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Midwest3Gunner Sees Sights

Midwest3Gunner

Posted
Posted (edited)

I know you said that you wanted to stick with Atlas, but Phoenix Trinity is offering the Race Shop for the Honcho, you can get the 40 cal sight block by itself for 3200 with a steel grip. P.s. 10 week lead time

Edited by Midwest3Gunner
Forgot lead time.
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MacLethal Sees Sights

MacLethal

Posted
Posted
I know you said that you wanted to stick with Atlas, but Phoenix Trinity is offering the Race Shop for the Honcho, you can get the 40 cal sight block by itself for 3200 with a steel grip. P.s. 10 week lead time


They are hitting it hard with this new race shop, that’s a damn good price for a ready to go “custom” 2011 style gun.


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af_tt Finally read the FAQs

af_tt

Posted
Posted
If I was looking for a sightblock Limited 2011 right now....I’d be making a PT honcho. 
 
$3200 for a gun that is comparable to the Nemesis is insane. 
I've held a few Honchos and they're something else. They're incredibly smooth, I am assuming due to the lack of a traditional barrel lug.

I'm considering one myself.

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