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egd5

laser differences

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I have been looking for a brighter laser than the CT206 I have on my pcc now. I know there is a regulation about power not being over 5mw, whatever that means.

What is puzzling to me is that I have found web sites where they are selling laser "pointers" that are up to 50,000mw. WTH! What is the difference and if you can have one that powerful why can't you have a more powerful one on a gun. These pointers have no way (that I could find anyway) to attach them to the gun nor do they have a way to adjust for sighting. If some genius person could figure that out could you mount one on a gun?

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Posted (edited)

The 5mw is what is deemed as eye  safe( no protective laser safety glasses) any thing over that is dangerous in direct view and IN SPLASH BACK OFF OF THINGS...their is a thred on the PCC area that some videos were posted of the lasers burning/melting stuff..I was a laser safety officer when I was in the milatary,wont stay in a bay if someone is using one over the 5MW limit..I don't care whet th sticker says i can tell...bottom line if it is brighter than the 206 it is a risk..

Edited by 2011BLDR

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Well, IMO, we need something a little brighter. I have a feeling, as with so many things the govt. "deems" is "safe", there is probably more room there than they say.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, egd5 said:

Well, IMO, we need something a little brighter. I have a feeling, as with so many things the govt. "deems" is "safe", there is probably more room there than they say.

 

Well, if you trust your feeling better than the government and a laser security officer, then go right ahead. Do what you want as long as there is just yourself around, but don't jeopardize the safety of other people. 

Edited by mrd

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Maybe you're right. The Government always knows best doesn't it.

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3 hours ago, egd5 said:

Maybe you're right. The Government always knows best doesn't it.

I have milatary friends that have lost their sight from lasers ...." eye safe "only means that you will look away/ close your eyes before you do damage,  that's why a slightly  defused splash back can be more dangerous than a direct view.. you can play Russian  roulette with your eyesight, but I wont RO, run the pad or stay in a bay with someone  using one.

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Hey guys, so I am a product manager at LaserMax, might be able to provide some input here.

 

Like what was said up above, 5mW is the cut off that the FDA puts on commercially sold lasers. This is the threshold that they consider "eye safe". Basically it is not enough energy that it can do damage within the time your eye naturally takes to blink.

 

Green lasers will be your best bet, the human eye sees the color green better than other colors in the light spectrum, so all things being equal the green will be much more visible than red.

 

Some of those laser pointers you see advertised a great amount over the maximum output the FDA seem to be snuck past customs or something like that, because the FDA really does tightly regulate lasers. 

 

One of the real issues with those is, they aren't just putting off visible energy that can damage your eyes, but IR energy that can damage your eyes, which you can't see. So you literally could and probably are dosing yourself without ever knowing it.

 

A healthy fear of direct energy isn't a bad thing. Here's an article that goes into some of the dangers of lasers, if you're interested:

https://www.gentec-eo.com/blog/dangers-of-laser-pointers

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Posted (edited)

I have been shooting PCC since day 1 with a CT206 and a couple of others here in the very bright Texas sun and have found them to be pretty useless in all but a few times & conditions. Under about 10 yards & overcast. It takes me too long to find that tiny green dot in the bright sun light..

 

I have worked on a way to hold the PCC out in front off my shoulder to see the 6moa  red dot on hard leans when the laser won't work or can't see it. A little slow, but faster than finding the laser dot & it always works.

 

My question to you laser experts is why can't you design one with a bigger dot, kind of like the shotgun one with the multiple dots I saw a few years ago. I don't remember who made it.

 

gerritm

Edited by gerritm

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35 minutes ago, gerritm said:

My question to you laser experts is why can't you design one with a bigger dot, kind of like the shotgun one with the multiple dots I saw a few years ago.

Yeah, that would work. I just want something we can see in the sun.

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1 hour ago, gerritm said:

I have been shooting PCC since day 1 with a CT206 and a couple of others here in the very bright Texas sun and have found them to be pretty useless in all but a few times & conditions. Under about 10 yards & overcast. It takes me too long to find that tiny green dot in the bright sun light..

 

I have worked on a way to hold the PCC out in front off my shoulder to see the 6moa  red dot on hard leans when the laser won't work or can't see it. A little slow, but faster than finding the laser dot & it always works.

 

My question to you laser experts is why can't you design one with a bigger dot, kind of like the shotgun one with the multiple dots I saw a few years ago. I don't remember who made it.

 

gerritm

That was the LaserLyte Laser Sight Center Mass which has been discontinued.    https://www.amazon.com/LaserLyte-Laser-Sight-Center-Mass/dp/B0180OYGCA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

I liked the form factor since it had a momentary mode and I contacted them about making one with a single dot.  They said it wasn't feasible due to the necessary windage & elevation adjustments. 

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I don't have an issue seeing mine honestly. Any brighter and it would be TOO bright for indoors/overcast conditions.

 

You really shouldn't have to search for it, look where you want the gun to go, etc.

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Stop using the laser? Then it's a non issue.

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On 8/30/2019 at 8:23 PM, rowdyb said:

Stop using the laser? Then it's a non issue.

Other than a few times I pretty much have. At first thought it was the cure all for those hard leans. Figured out a better way to shoot them. I am blind in my right eye so shoot left handed and can't switch hands for the hard right side leans. We have had a few that almost had to shoot pistol one handed so PCC was super difficult. Just worked out a way for switch hands and hold it out away from the shoulder and it seems to work.

 

They are cool indoors. 

 

gerritm

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Don't some of the classifiers define weak side as weak hand/weak shoulder too? Does your system work for that?

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Surefire X400 green is pretty bright but have limited tactical laser pointer experience on firearms...

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15 hours ago, egd5 said:

Don't some of the classifiers define weak side as weak hand/weak shoulder too? Does your system work for that?

Not sure how it fits the rules on classifiers. When I shoot classifiers where it specifies weak side I go to my right hand (weak side) and still hold the pcc off my shoulder so I can use my left eye to aim. No RO has said anything as long as I am weak side, and personally I have no choice. If there is a rule, call it & give me a procedural. 

 

gerritm

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On 8/29/2019 at 9:55 PM, egd5 said:

Well, IMO, we need something a little brighter. I have a feeling, as with so many things the govt. "deems" is "safe", there is probably more room there than they say.

Suit yourself then- its your eye sight not ours- just saying 😎

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1 hour ago, gerritm said:

Not sure how it fits the rules on classifiers. When I shoot classifiers where it specifies weak side I go to my right hand (weak side) and still hold the pcc off my shoulder so I can use my left eye to aim. No RO has said anything as long as I am weak side, and personally I have no choice. If there is a rule, call it & give me a procedural. 

 

gerritm

Here are the relevant definitions from the 2019 rules:

 

image.png.8ddcd7f58638f59c61bb478138352106.png

image.png.d9ff055baba5a54e9e41fa7fe0598f3c.png

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29 minutes ago, Tampa-XD45 said:

Here are the relevant definitions from the 2019 rules:

 

image.png.8ddcd7f58638f59c61bb478138352106.png

image.png.d9ff055baba5a54e9e41fa7fe0598f3c.png

All fine and good, but if I can't see with it mounted to my weak side right shoulder, give me the procedurals/penalties or whatever. Its just a classifier. I follow all of this except touching the shoulder.

 

gerritm

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6 hours ago, gerritm said:

All fine and good, but if I can't see with it mounted to my weak side right shoulder, give me the procedurals/penalties or whatever. Its just a classifier. I follow all of this except touching the shoulder.

 

gerritm

No reasonable RM would give a penalty in this instance. There is provision in the rules that someone with only one functioning hand does not have to switch without penalty. You’ve complied as best you are able.  Especially in a bigger match though, should probably discuss with RM before shooting per 10.2.10. 

 

Now we’re drifting off topic. 

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I do like the green lasers better, and I use them a bit differently.  I  run mine on the receiver rail, directly in front of the red dot so parallax is minimal.  I use it as a long range aiming point, about the same as a bdc.  On the 9mm its not as big of a deal, but on the 45... drop at 100+ yards gets sporting...

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Unless it's in a dark shadow or almost dark, what laser do you use that you can see at 100 yds on a bright day?

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I can see it on white steel ok. At 100 yards, it is a stretch,  but knowing where to look (just below red dot) if I see green, I shoot.  If I am off the target, or it's not white  I'm screwed.

 

It's more of an art than a science...😁

Edited by barrysuperhawk

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39 minutes ago, egd5 said:

Unless it's in a dark shadow or almost dark, what laser do you use that you can see at 100 yds on a bright day?

Good luck seeing a laser at 100 yards with anything you'll put on a PCC.  I live in Florida and I can see my laser up to 40 yards on bright sunny days.

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Admittedly I have only made it work once in a match, in Missouri, shooting 2x4 in a 3 gun match, but I was able to see a flash of green and hit targets...

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