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gr7070

Which 8-round Revo for Competition

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Posted (edited)

 

So I'm looking at buying an 8-round revolver. I'd use it to shoot a bunch of the different "action" games; Steel Challenge, local action games, USPSA, whatever. 

 

I do not reload.

 

Of the (readily available) options out there which model do y'all prefer and for what reasons?

 

Edit:

Re: caliber I don't know that I care, per se. I own and shoot both already. However, if one has a preference I'd like to here the preference and reasoning for it. I don't shoot tons; so cost isn't incredibly important, but it does help.

 

Thanks!

Edited by gr7070

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A question that only you can answer is do you want a 9mm or a 38 cal.?

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When you say you own both calibers already, do you mean 357 mag revolver and 9mm semi-auto? If you don’t reload, then I feel like you would have to go with a S&W 929, since you are not going to find 38 short colt on the shelves. But even then, do the 929’s run factory 9mm out of the box? Don’t have any experience with that myself. My advice would be to take a serious look at getting into reloading first.

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929

Federal American eagle ammo

147gr

Friend is using above set up with great success

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, J_Allen said:

When you say you own both calibers already, do you mean 357 mag revolver and 9mm semi-auto? If you don’t reload, then I feel like you would have to go with a S&W 929, since you are not going to find 38 short colt on the shelves. But even then, do the 929’s run factory 9mm out of the box? Don’t have any experience with that myself. My advice would be to take a serious look at getting into reloading first.

 

I do mean 38 spl./357 magnum revolvers and 9x19 autos. I would not be shooting short colt. 

 

I use 38 spl Federal American Eagle ammo in my revolvers currently and whatever cheap 9mm I buy. 

 

While I appreciate the suggestion I will not be reloading. I don't have the interest and I don't shoot enough to justify the cost. 

 

Edited by gr7070

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Based on the above info, I'd steer you toward the 929. Be aware, you might still need a tune to get it to shoot factory ammo reliably. Some are fine out of the box, but I've also heard of brand new ones that give you "clickers." Revo shooting got me into reloading so I could produce reliable ammo.

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I shoot 38 special, my reload is under two and a half seconds. I don't know what it would be with a shorter case, I've never played with it. My reload is not the limiting part of my game.

The problem with 38s is many factory loads reportedly don't make power factor and moon clips are specific to the brand of brass. I handload.

If I were starting over, I would get a 929 as 9 mm brass is all but free. I guess they can be a bit cranky, but I'm sure with a little experimentation you can find a factory loading that will work. As always, Federal primers are softer and allow for a lighter trigger pull.

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Before I reloaded 9 mm for my 929 I used Federal ammo and had no problems with it.  I fired 1000 rounds for the brass and by then I had my dies for my Dillon 650 and just reloaded them.  If you don't intent to reload go with the 929.

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41 minutes ago, gr7070 said:

 

I do mean 38 spl./357 magnum revolvers and 9x19 autos. I would not be shooting short colt. 

 

I use 38 spl Federal American Eagle ammo in my revolvers currently and whatever cheap 9mm I buy. 

 

While I appreciate the suggestion I will not be reloading. I don't have the interest and I don't shoot enough to justify the cost. 

 

Then 929 gets the nod. Save your brass though, because you never know. 😉

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Posted (edited)

It sounds like the choice is truly only about the caliber and nothing to do with the gun itself. I was think the M&P R8 and it's far less weight would be optimal???

 

Is it mostly about moon clips and holding the brass tightly over everything else?

 

Is it power factor? I know American Eagle has met IDPA's 105 in the past. 

 

What's the reason for 9 over 38? Hoping to learn the reasoning behind the choices before I move forward. 

Edited by gr7070

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Posted (edited)

Either way you go, fitting brass to moons will be the issue. I backed into going short colt because was having issues getting special brass to fit moons. From what I hear, the issue is similar with the 929. Short colt is basically a rimmed 9 so I kind of am shooting that anyway. From what has been shared with me, for 929's Winchester brass works well. I know a couple folks that shoot Winchester White box and then keep the brass and reload it. Of course, if you do a competition action tune, you're going to want Federal primers. If you leave your action stock, it should light off Wins. 

 

9 vs. 38 special - I found the difference was in the ejection. I had to tilt the gun up and even so, sometimes a moon would get hung up. Short colts pop right out and I expect 9's would do the same.

 

Again, even though revolvers are simple machines, making them work for competition can be complicated.

Edited by Mcfoto

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26 minutes ago, gr7070 said:

It sounds like the choice is truly only about the caliber and nothing to do with the gun itself. I was think the M&P R8 and it's far less weight would be optimal???

 

Is it mostly about moon clips and holding the brass tightly over everything else?

 

Is it power factor? I know American Eagle has met IDPA's 105 in the past. 

 

What's the reason for 9 over 38? Hoping to learn the reasoning behind the choices before I move forward. 

9 over 38 for ammo choice, 

pretty much no 38 makes USPSA Minor so thats a a issue for many,

9mm will be easier to load and eject because for the short brass 

9mm can probably be found in a nice round nose profile that will make power factor , many of the 38 loads are not a great shape for loading fast.

with 38 you buy moonclips based on brand of brass, if your buying ammo you would have many less options

 

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929  9mm...  If you plan to try to lighten trigger pull much you’ll be staying away from  Winchester White box and going to the pricier Federal products but if your not shooting much,,  no big deal I guess...

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I had a S&W 627 v comp , I used 38 short short colt cases and the reloading learning curve was steep and I found the moon clips

were fragile. I don’t shoot Icor so I sold it right before uspsa decided you could shoot it minor in revolver. When the 929 came out I jumped on it 9mm made more sense, reloading is easier and the moons are sturdier. 

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Points of clarification:

  • If you're shooting an 8 shot USPSA you're scored as minor pf even if your loads are major pf.
  • Starline short colt brass now fits perfectly using 0.025 thick moon clips.  No problems what so ever.
  • I BELIEVE  9MM revolver barrels are made on the 38 production line.  SO barrel size is close to 9MM.  If you hand load you can get bullets that run well in your barrel.  If you purchase ammo ($8-$9 federal non brass case) you are going to have to live with the accuracy you get.
  • Lee now had dies sets made for 38 short colt.  No mixing and matching with other die sets (9 MM)
  • 38 Short colt vs 9 MM loading and unloading....petty much the same since they are much the same size.
  • 9MM range brass can have the 'Glock' bulge from unsupported barrels.  Need a roll resizer to fix that.  Once done you'll keep you brass as they are in moon clips.
  • Using a commentator (open class) and lead bullets will get the comp plugged with lead.  The lead are easily removable and clean up well with a soaking.  But an issue.

There's probable more so ask away.

I shoot 38 super Revolver and now switched to 38 short colt (different guns both 627 S&W frames).  I have a 7 shot 9MM but never got it up and running for competition.

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19 hours ago, gr7070 said:

Is it power factor? I know American Eagle has met IDPA's 105 in the past. 

 

What's the reason for 9 over 38? Hoping to learn the reasoning behind the choices before I move forward. 

 Wait? You’re not gonna try to use an 8-shot revo in IDPA are you? Or have I misunderstood?

 

But yes, it does seem to come down to ammo. For you at least.

 

If you will not reload you have two options: a 9 mm or 38/357 revo.

 

Yes, if you want, you can shoot 38 special in moon clips but there is a reason why people don’t typically do this. In short, reloads are harder/slower. So to fix this people use 38 short colts. You say you don’t want to reload so just know that you’ll be at this disadvantage. Who knows? You might not mind. (And no, you cannot buy 38 short colt that’ll make PF in your revo).

 

If you want an easier reload relative to mooned 38 special, 9mm is a good option. However, much like factory 38 special, 9 mm isn’t guaranteed to make your sports PF. Additionally, the 929 is known for being a bit of a fixer-upper which might mean your factory ammo of choice will not work.

 

It seems like I’m just rehashing a lot of what has already been said. I think it would be helpful for you to expand on exactly what sport you (primarily) want to shoot so we can help better.

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It sounds like the choice is truly only about the caliber and nothing to do with the gun itself. I was think the M&P R8 and it's far less weight would be optimal???
 
Is it mostly about moon clips and holding the brass tightly over everything else?
 
Is it power factor? I know American Eagle has met IDPA's 105 in the past. 
 
What's the reason for 9 over 38? Hoping to learn the reasoning behind the choices before I move forward. 


What's this IDPA talk? You need a 6 shot revolver for that game. You can shoot an 8 shot, but you can only load 6 rounds. Click, click, boom on every cylinder.

Also, the IDPA powers that be have declared that anything longer than a 4 inch barrel is unsuitable for carry. Many of us shoot 5 inch or longer barrels in the other games.

If you want one revolver to work for USPSA and IDPA you'll be compromised somewhere. ICORE has divisions that overlap with both. I don't know that it matters in steel.

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Posted (edited)

I'll actually be shooting mostly local Steel Challenge and home-grown action games without power factor requirements, but with on the clock reloads. Very, very little true USPSA. 

 

Looks like I've got a handle on preferences and reasons for it. Much appreciate all the input!

 

I don't mind working on the revolver; I've changed out springs, pinned front sights, etc. 

 

I've been learning towards the R8, but may have to reconsider for the 9mm reload. Though I like the idea of the low weight R8 and slightly lower recoil of 38. 

 

I actually have an older 627, but was thinking about selling it in exchange for an R8 or the 929 - looks like my used current 8-shot is highly sought after (627-PC with unfluted cylinder; yes an actual dash PC). Figured if I was going to swap it out, I'd start from scratch and get one intentionally for games. 

Edited by gr7070

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8 minutes ago, PatJones said:

What's this IDPA talk? You need a 6 shot revolver for that game. You can shoot an 8 shot, but you can only load 6 rounds. Click, click, boom on every cylinder.


Also, the IDPA powers that be have declared that anything longer than a 4 inch barrel is unsuitable for carry. Many of us shoot 5 inch or longer barrels in the other games.

If you want one revolver to work for USPSA and IDPA you'll be compromised somewhere. ICORE has divisions that overlap with both. I don't know that it matters in steel.

 

 

Understood with regard to IDPA. Though I believe that now allow an "open" category, at least for "not sanctioned" IDPA matches. It's actually been a number of years since I've completed seriously in IDPA; have always used my 686. 

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3 hours ago, gr7070 said:

I'll actually be shooting mostly local Steel Challenge and home-grown action games without power factor requirements, but with on the clock reloads. Very, very little true USPSA. 

 

Looks like I've got a handle on preferences and reasons for it. Much appreciate all the input!

 

I don't mind working on the revolver; I've changed out springs, pinned front sights, etc. 

 

I've been learning towards the R8, but may have to reconsider for the 9mm reload. Though I like the idea of the low weight R8 and slightly lower recoil of 38. 

 

I actually have an older 627, but was thinking about selling it in exchange for an R8 or the 929 - looks like my used current 8-shot is highly sought after (627-PC with unfluted cylinder; yes an actual dash PC). Figured if I was going to swap it out, I'd start from scratch and get one intentionally for games. 

One issue as I understand it with the R8 (aluminum frame) is if subject to lots of high speed shooting the cylinder stop hole in the frame will get beat up causing the lockup to get loose, I know Jerry used to shoot one for steel challenge but I doubt Jerry was paying for them so wear was not a real issue for him. 

 

 

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The issues with 38 spec vs 38 short colt is one of consistency.  Starline brass has consistent cuts for the extractor groove not all manufacturers keep them so and they vary between manufacturers.  So to use tight moon clips for faster reloads we reload with starline brass, since we don't lose them the short colts are a tiny bit faster on the extraction.  A tight moon clip will work well with either special or short colt.

For 9mm the extractor cuts also vary.  The recommendation is to pick one brand ww/remington/federal and ask Dave at Hearthco (on this forum no less) or TK for moon clips that will fit them best.  Then stick with that brand.

Since you don't plan to reload the 9mm may well be your best bet.

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An aluminum frame gun will not hold up well to competition use. The heavier SS revos hold up well, and the extra weight is a welcome recoil reducer.

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As someone who just got themselves a revolver to shoot, take it from me: Go with the S&W 929.

  1. First and foremost .38 special doesn't always make PF, but most if not all factory 9mm does. It's super annoying trying to find the ones that do, then finding them for cheap. This is the most annoying thing for me, and something I didn't think of at the time.
  2. .38 special doesn't have a standardized casing in terms of the cutout. Different brands of ammo will work with different sizes of moonclip. See my post on TK clip fitment for an idea. I actually have 2 sets of 10 rather than 20 of one type.
  3. 9mm is almost half the price of 38 special. I average 16cpr for 9mm and 28cpr for 38 special.
  4. Unjacketed ammo is much more common and cheaper in .38 special. It smells much worse than 9mm when shooting it and leaves a whole bunch of residue in the barrel.
  5. .38 special is longer, and thus will be a little harder to insert into the cylinder while reloading. Some combos of moonclip and round play real nice, but some are very stubborn.
  6. I think 9mm has less (felt?) recoil.


However, nice things about the S&W 627 I got:

  1. It's more of a classic revolver than 9mm, since it shoots a revolver caliber.
  2. I can load spare rounds in the cases that the rounds I'm trying out don't want to play nicely with moon clips.
  3. The 627 is shorter than the 929 and doesn't have that comp on the front.
  4. Apparently the 929 still has some issues.


One side note: Although the lock does look ugly, it is super useful if you want to make doubly sure that you don't have a negligent discharge while doing reload practice.

 

Now keep in mind, I have not shot nor handled a 929, and this may just simply be buyer's remorse talking. I also have no other revolvers to compare it to.
I did take it out to the range, and have about 800 rounds through it. I also recently used it in a match and it performed just fine.

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On 8/21/2019 at 8:20 PM, b1indfire said:

 

One side note: Although the lock does look ugly, it is super useful if you want to make doubly sure that you don't have a negligent discharge while doing reload practice.

 

I may be taking this out of context since it wasn’t the point of your post, but thought it would be worth mentioning.... but PLEASE do not use live rounds if you are doing any sort of gun manipulation during practice. Other options include snap caps or making some dummy rounds if you are a reloader. Without any other information, I am not trying to imply you are unsafe, but I do know that anyone can make a mistake, as we are all human. Taking live ammo out of the equation is just something that I would STRONGLY encourage.

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