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Stafford

Limited vs Production

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1 hour ago, Stafford said:

A little off-topic, but related to my slow shooting for accuracy: is IDPA counter intuitive to USPSA?

yes and no,

 

IDPA is more punitive for accuracy issues but to be at the top of the game yo have to shoot accurately fast.

USPSA is more speed oriented than IDPA but to be at the top of the game you need to shoot accurately fast.

 

All  IDPA stages have a hit factor of 2 (a-1 being the same as a C in minor)  USPSA stages the hit factor varies from stage to stage, typically a 2 HF stage would be considered very very low making accuracy a premium more typically you will see stages in the 5 to 10 range occasionally higher (I have seen as high as the low 20s)  so  while a -1/C at a 2 HF equal 1 second of time at say 8 hf a C(in minor) is equal to 1/4 second. 

 

so the emphasis on speed and accuracy is different but to be successful you need to do both quickly in both sports.

 

 

 

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What is easier to do well it?  Tough question. I would lean toward production, but it'll be vary dependent on your club.

 

Locally we see a lot of IDPA guys who come shoot USPSA from time to time. These guys will be shooting Limited Minor and if you train for uspsa and take it seriously they shouldn't be hard to beat. But, you also see most new shooters that come in with a gun they already have and shoot production at first because their gun fits that division. These guys should be easy to beat too. Of the guys that come in to USPSA and start in production, some will get really good and stay there. Others will move to a different division. Limited for example you'll see a lot of 4k 2011 type guns, many who invest that kind of money probably take the game seriously and may be good shooters. (not all)

 

Locally we have a few GM's in Limited, but one recent match I went to a B class shooter won production. So right now in our area production is easier. A couple years ago, production was probably harder because a couple local GM's were shooting production then and limited now.

 

I guess my point is the equipment doesn't matter. Unless you shoot revolver and be first place at every match, that would be easy when you're the only guy there.

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IMHO.

I always tell newbies to start limited, open, CO or PCC.

Minimal reloads for them. 

The more manipulation, movement, stage breakdown, etc. etc. - it gets too much in their head and that's when i commonly see them get confuse.

Along with directions from all shooters willing to help newbies... 

 

Now typical average competitor, assuming the shooter has a top quality pistol and accessories for either division.. i would say whatever fuels your passion. LOL

 

 

 

 

Edited by Yagi

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I may be in the minority but I think new USPSA shooters will benefit most from starting in Production or Single Stack? My reasons; while you get to shoot minor (easier), points matter more so it forces you to work on accuracy. You have to reload more so you get more practice doing that as well. Stage planning is a little more complicated, so you get to work on that more. After spending a year or two in Production, a move to Limited will seem easier but your skill level will be better. Ultimately it all comes down to how much you are willing to invest in practice. Both dry fire and live fire practice. Getting some training from a reputable teacher will teach you how to practice to get the most out of your time.


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Why steer a new shooter away from having to do reloads?  That skill development should start as early as possible.  If you can do well in Single Stack you can probably go to any other handgun division and do well.  It's a good foundation for Limited and Open.  A production gun will be a pleasure and of course so will carry optics.  Revolver, well that's a whole other thing.

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yep and they wil lbe ahead of the game in 2021 when we will all need to learn how to reload

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4 hours ago, GunBugBit said:

Why steer a new shooter away from having to do reloads?  That skill development should start as early as possible.  If you can do well in Single Stack you can probably go to any other handgun division and do well.  It's a good foundation for Limited and Open.  A production gun will be a pleasure and of course so will carry optics.  Revolver, well that's a whole other thing.

I steer new shooters to Limited because of the Lack of rules and fewer reloads.   Production has the largest rule set and the need for more equipment than what new shooters normally have.   Their lack of knowledge of the game and lack of equipment( mags and pouches mostly) actually steers them to Limited.  Typically Limited Minor.  

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Not sure if this is the answer your seeking but as a newer shooter and new to competition as well I would start in limited with a striker fired gun simply to take variables out of the equation so you can focus on shooting the stage and targets.  One reload per stage (max) less gun manipulation less to think about. More money left over to take training classes or practice.  Get into C class and then decide what division appeals to you.

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Open. Hands down.
You get more shooting less reloads to distract you from shooting. Which is the primary skill of this game. 
Dot will let you see much easier HOW you shoot so you learn shooting faster. 
This is if your goal is to LEARN shooting more than beating the competition. But eventually you will beat them sooner if you learn faster. 

Edited by BoyGlock

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Well, some love the race gun experience whereas others are wanting to compete with something closer to what they could carry.  We have our individual set of things we want to get out of competing.

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I shot Production in my first match and was going back and forth on whether to shoot Limited for my next match. I’d be shooting a 92fs either way (run what ya got) so the only difference would be the reloads; I’m not even worried about being competitive against folks shooting major. I decided to stick with Production. Yes, not having to worry about reloads as often would allow me to focus on learning to move fast and simplify stage planning. But I intend to keep shooting minor (No desire to add new calibers to the stable), and at some point I would like to be competitive in my division, so I figured it’s either Production or CO, and I have no O’s. I’d rather focus on getting good in Production than get good in Limited and then have to rethink stage planning and add more reloads after I get tired of being beat up by people shooting major. 

 

Maybe be at some point I’ll get into CO, but I’ve got plenty to learn before I worry about that. 

Edited by Eric802

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On 8/27/2019 at 5:49 PM, Joe4d said:

yep and they wil lbe ahead of the game in 2021 when we will all need to learn how to reload

 

So what’s happening in 2021?

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1 hour ago, Stafford said:

 

So what’s happening in 2021?

 

Nothing.  Just the typical defeatist attitude that the national election will lead to a ton of gun control.

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11 hours ago, Eric802 said:

I shot Production in my first match and was going back and forth on whether to shoot Limited for my next match. I’d be shooting a 92fs either way (run what ya got) so the only difference would be the reloads; I’m not even worried about being competitive against folks shooting major. I decided to stick with Production. Yes, not having to worry about reloads as often would allow me to focus on learning to move fast and simplify stage planning. But I intend to keep shooting minor (No desire to add new calibers to the stable), and at some point I would like to be competitive in my division, so I figured it’s either Production or CO, and I have no O’s. I’d rather focus on getting good in Production than get good in Limited and then have to rethink stage planning and add more reloads after I get tired of being beat up by people shooting major. 

 

Maybe be at some point I’ll get into CO, but I’ve got plenty to learn before I worry about that. 

 

That was my line of thinking when I started four years ago.  CO wasn't on my radar back then and I didn't even consider starting in Limited.  I had a production gun, a holster, 3 - 4 mags, and two mag pouches (from IDPA SSP) so I bought 3 - 4 more mags and two more cheap, clip on mag pouches and boom I can go shoot Production.  Later on once I figured out I like USPSA more I bought the big belt with all the stuff on it.

 

I have found that the typical advice of not having as many reloads in a stage to make shooting simpler applies only to those who do no dry fire work at home.  That isn't me.

 

Maybe I'm crazy but Production makes stage planning easier for me as it reduces the number of stage plan possibilities that you have to consider when you have to reload every four (or at most five) targets.

Edited by elguapo

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1 hour ago, elguapo said:

 

Maybe I'm crazy but Production makes stage planning easier for me as it reduces the number of stage plan possibilities that you have to consider when you have to reload every four (or at most five) targets.

Good point. And as a PCC shooter who never worries about reloads I can verify that there are often several choices on how to shoot a stage. Picking the best is fun though.

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