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Chris777

Thinking about going back to my M&P from my Shadow 2

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I have been shooting my Shadow 2 for about 2 years in USPSA production. Love the gun, its way more accurate than I ever will be, but I am noticing that its heft is making recoil control for me a bit of an issue.  Also feel i am bouncing the gun more if I am shooting on the move a lot more than I do with my M&P 9 FS. Both guns fit me well, but I am thinking of putting the CZ S2 down for a while and going back to my plastic, light weight M&P with Apex FFT.

 

I know the response will be go to the gym and work on developing a stronger grip, etc, but was wondering if I was the only person that has shot the S2 for a while and just feel they are faster and able to transition to targets better/faster with a plastic/striker fired pistol?

 

Not trying to start a flame on CZ vs. M&P or plastic guns....

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Never shot an M&P. But I did spend some time with Glock 17. I can't imagine going back to a polymer framed gun after shooting a Shadow or Shadow 2.

I just find the recoil management to be so much easier with the steel-framed guns.

 

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I have a match in two weeks.  I will give the M&P a run and see if i shoot better or if I was just looking for a reason for why my suck level has been rising lately :)

 

Also may play with S2 recoil springs to see if I can get the gun to track better after.  Using an 11 lb spring in there now with 124gr 125ish PF rounds.  My M&P is just snappier with these rounds and the tracks right back on target after firing.  The S2 is close, but does take a bit more grip focus for me to get the slide to cycle and end up back on target.  Most of my second shots with the S2 are 6 o'clock low...   again..need to work on beefing up my girly wrists... 

 

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Shoot what works best for you. I have a couple of M&Ps and they're fine pistols

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Not exactly the same, but I have switched from my S2 to the CZ 75 Shadow. I put brass SSI scales grips on the 75 and the balance is at about the first knuckle on my trigger finger. In contrast, with the S2 it felt like the gun balanced at the front edge of the trigger guard.  The difference in overall weight is only about 6oz, but the balance is very different.

 

It does feel different when shooting too. It took me a couple hundred rounds to drive the muzzle back down on the 75, where I relied upon the weight of the S2 to realign the sights. I had apparently adopted the timing of the S2 and my first couple stages with a 75 were Alpha-Headshot as I wasn't accustomed to the gun cycling slower. The 75, with its palm-centered balance and light muzzle, does feel much quicker when transitioning or getting sight alignment on the move.

So yeah, I'm with you on the move to a lighter gun, but I'm still sticking with my CZC DA/SA triggers. Once upon a time CZC was cutting the dust cover on the Tactical Sports to make them lighter and quicker pointing too. Now heavy guns are in fashion.

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Posted (edited)

I have a Performance Center 9L that has the Apex FFS/T kit in it ... and it's fast , really fast. I still use it occasionally for steel matches.

On the draw I am actually faster with the 9L than I am with the Shadow 2. I don't know if it's the weight or the hump on the back side of the grip , but

for some reason when I draw the S2 I fish a bit, the muzzle always  comes up. It does not with the M&P. I'm 6', 210 pounds and do plenty of arm work at the gym so It's

not uncomfortable or too heavy anything like that, I haven't figured it out yet.  If I could get my double taps as good with the M&P as the shadow 2

I would use it a lot more in matches. I also tend to get light strikes with the M&P ever since I put the Apex package in , that always worries me.

I never do with the shadow 2.

Your allegiance to any gun is useless, shoot whatever you feel you shoot best. I see plenty of guys at matches using

polymer guns that light it up every week. isn't the Sig X5 polymer? I see those everywhere now.

I'm even thinking about getting another SRO and putting it on the M&P, that's how much I like that gun

Edited by kmanick

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I hope it's okay for a Tanfo owner to chime in here. I've been shooting a G34 for my 2.5 years of USPSA. Have stayed with it (until now) as I strongly feel it's the Indian not the arrow and have been told so in class by very good instructors. 

 

Having said that I just bought a Stock 2 and have about 2 weeks of dry fire and a bit of live fire on it. I resisted this for a long time, but in truth it's hard to see that most all of the very top guys shoot steel DA/SA guns. I have only ever shot Glocks in a serious fashion. I may well go back, but from an experience standpoint I think it has to be beneficial to seriously work both platforms and see which works best for the individual shooter. 

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I think this a great experiment for you.  Not everyone likes to shoot the same way.  Some like heavy guns, some like light guns.  I have a buddy that plain out rocks a 52oz open gun, I have shot this gun and it is just way to heavy for me.  

 

I personally love shooting my 1911 45acp, but don't really care for shooting 1911 9mm.  However, I do like shooting my 9mm Glocks and M&Ps.  I think I like the "sharper" (if that is the right descriptive word) recoil, it seems to help get the sights back on target quicker for me.

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I switched from M&P9Pro to Tanfoglio Stock 2 (similar to CZ Shadow 2). I did not see a measurable difference in my scores. First shot and transitions are faster with M&P, splits are faster with Tanfoglio. Overall it's a wash. Maybe at GM level there is a meaningful difference, but I'm nowhere near that.

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I have a comparatively weak grip. I can't even close the 0.5 captains of crush, let alone the 1. So you can shoot a Shadow 2 at a decent level without a monster grip. (Though I'm working on it!)

 

Having recently shot a polymer gun non stop for two months here is what I have to say.

  • Your mental confidence in your set up matters more than anything if both guns function as they should. The mental side is of equal measure importance to your performance as your physical preparation.
  • Each gun has its relative strengths and weaknesses. The "work" you do to shoot a stage and drills on the timer can reveal them to you but your sum total "work" is the same. You can get the same results but you do it differently. That's when you have to take a strong look at what you're doing and see if you're applying the right tool to  your personal abilities and tendencies.
  • pick one gun model and shoot it exclusively for 24 matches.

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Posted (edited)

@rowdyb get interested in rock climbing. We have an indoor bouldering gym nearby that I used to belong to.

 

I was lifting weights 6 days a week, roughly 7 hours total, for months before I first went. That was a rude awakening.

 

Not even five minutes in, your forearms are done. Nothing like lifting your bodyweight with your fingers for five minutes straight - and having fun doing it - to make you stronger.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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On 8/13/2019 at 1:27 PM, Chris777 said:

 I am thinking of putting the CZ S2 down for a while and going back to my plastic, light weight M&P with Apex FFT.

 

Shoot whatever you like. Don't let people convince you. Been there done that. As long as it's a reliable gun with aftermarket support, fits your hand, it's good to go. Everything is preference. 

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Forget about the plastic vs metal debate.  At the end of the day, you're the one shooting the gun.  Confidence is everything!  Remember that Ergonomics of the gun also play a role in recoil depending on the how the gun fits your grip.  The M&P just seems like a better fit.

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I have had a struggle since last years August until half way through this years shooting season after switching from the old SP-01 Shadow to the new Shadow 2. Now roughly 10k rounds later with the Shadow 2 I am prefferring that to the old one. But it sure took some time getting used to the different balance, different behavious in terms of seing the sights lifting and tracking them, the way I was pushing the gun around instead of letting it do some of the work etc.............. difference in the different guns do take considerable time to get  used to because you have to retraing you visual perception and patience and also your muscle memory and so on...

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I wish S&W would put out a Steel framed version of th e5" M&P , like Walther did with the Q5 Match.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat, and I'm sure many others would as well if priced right and they fixed the crappy stock triggers.

sorry to go off topic :)

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I shot a steel match today that had no classifiers in it , all "outlaw" stages so I decided to use my M&P instead of my trusty Shadow 2

since it was really just a "have fun" match.

I lit it up, I was about .85 faster on every string I shot today and even shot a sub 2 (1.92) string on one of the stages.

Just goes to show , use what works for you. Moving forward my M&P will be my dedicated steel gun and my S2 will be my USPSA gun.

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Have you checked out a P10F?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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On 8/24/2019 at 6:42 PM, kmanick said:

I shot a steel match today that had no classifiers in it , all "outlaw" stages so I decided to use my M&P instead of my trusty Shadow 2

since it was really just a "have fun" match.

I lit it up, I was about .85 faster on every string I shot today and even shot a sub 2 (1.92) string on one of the stages.

Just goes to show , use what works for you. Moving forward my M&P will be my dedicated steel gun and my S2 will be my USPSA gun.

which now has an SRO on it. Nothing wrong with these guns once you change out the trigger, the more I'm using this ow the more I like it.

G7wUZXi.jpg

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On 8/23/2019 at 5:10 PM, kmanick said:

I wish S&W would put out a Steel framed version of th e5" M&P , like Walther did with the Q5 Match.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat, and I'm sure many others would as well if priced right and they fixed the crappy stock triggers.

sorry to go off topic :)

 

Id prefer tungsten/polymer a la x5 legion but yea would be cool. 

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Posted (edited)

On my last match I went from my Shadow 1 to my M&P 2.0. I had not shot competition for over a year so I really don't think it made much difference to me since I am not that good anyway and totally rusty. But I will say I think the Shadow as a whole is easier to shoot quickly but does seem to transition slightly slower so you basically pick your poison. The reason I chose to run the M&P was I use it as an EDC gun so I wanted to practice with it, and since it is fairly new I wanted to give it a run to further verify its reliability. Overall I agree with the above posters use whatever you feel like. 

 

Edited by m39nut

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Through practice your grip will evolve. Small changes in the way you grip the gun can have a profound effect on the way the gun recoils. It's not just a matter of grip strength. After a few months with the M&P you may pick up the Shadow 2 and find it more to your liking, just because of those subtle differences.

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