Optic recommendations

[Rich406]

9 hours ago, jcc7x7 said:

Nothing is proven to be a bullet proof design to date.

DDP has held up well for me.

Sig Romeo 1 6moa has made it over 8k on the one slide w/o a problem

The main problem with the DPP is the battery contact mount. If you shoot enough in any one session to get the gun really hot, the glue that holds the battery contact in place loosens up and the battery contact moves. After a few sessions of this, the battery contact fails.  
 

only shoot a couple hundred rounds at a time, and you are likely to not have any problems. 

[beta1759]

14 hours ago, Rich406 said:

The main problem with the DPP is the battery contact mount. If you shoot enough in any one session to get the gun really hot, the glue that holds the battery contact in place loosens up and the battery contact moves. After a few sessions of this, the battery contact fails.  
 

only shoot a couple hundred rounds at a time, and you are likely to not have any problems. 

According to the product services representative at Leupold I spoke with, this has been resolved. There was a batch of switches from their supplier that caused a small increase in returns due to the battery contacts sliding. Those switches have been identified and scrapped.  All units current being repaired or manufactured will have the same trusted switches that have been in the DPPs for the last 5 years.

The DPP has been the top Optics in CO for the last 2 years at Nationals. Not to mention you have top guys like Christian Sailer and Nils Jonasson who both run them on their guns and im fairly certain they have long/frequent range sessions.  To say that it isn't trustworthy is simply not true.

[lstange]

33 minutes ago, beta1759 said:

you have top guys like Christian Sailer and Nils Jonasson who both run them on their guns

Christian Sailer shoots Open, not Carry Optics. Nils shot Open at the 2018 Nationals, too. The well known problem with DPP (serial numbers ending in AF) happens primarily with slide-mounted red dots. The center contact shifts back at the moment the slide stops at the rearmost position. Frame-mounted red dots never experience as much deceleration.

[beta1759]

7 minutes ago, lstange said:

Christian Sailer shoots Open, not Carry Optics. Nils shot Open at the 2018 Nationals, too. The well known problem with DPP (serial numbers ending in AF) happens primarily with slide-mounted red dots. The center contact shifts back at the moment the slide stops at the rearmost position. Frame-mounted red dots never experience as much deceleration.

Not disagreeing you with, but Nils is currently shooting CO and has photos of DPPs on his Caniks with his awards from matches on his instagram page. Regardless, the DPP was still the top choice at 2017 and 2018 nationals for CO.

[Rich406]

1 hour ago, beta1759 said:

According to the product services representative at Leupold I spoke with, this has been resolved. There was a batch of switches from their supplier that caused a small increase in returns due to the battery contacts sliding. Those switches have been identified and scrapped.  All units current being repaired or manufactured will have the same trusted switches that have been in the DPPs for the last 5 years.

The DPP has been the top Optics in CO for the last 2 years at Nationals. Not to mention you have top guys like Christian Sailer and Nils Jonasson who both run them on their guns and im fairly certain they have long/frequent range sessions.  To say that it isn't trustworthy is simply not true.

 

I broke 8 DPPs last year. At one point I had 6, just to have 2 running. I have several friends that had similar experiences with their DPPs used for CO. Ive only ever had one last more than 10k rounds. In my personal experience I wouldn't call them reliable. Ive long since moved away from them.

[Rich406]

25 minutes ago, beta1759 said:

Not disagreeing you with, but Nils is currently shooting CO and has photos of DPPs on his Caniks with his awards from matches on his instagram page. Regardless, the DPP was still the top choice at 2017 and 2018 nationals for CO.

 

The DPP was the clear winner in form factor in years past, biggest widow, bright dot, etc. And really it wasn't any more or less reliable than other options available at the time.That said, I think there are other potentially better options available now.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Rich406

[MikeBurgess]

7 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

 

The DPP was the clear winner in form factor in years past, biggest widow, bright dot, etc. And really it wasn't any more or less reliable than other options available at the time.That said, I think there are other potentially better options available now.

what is the current best unit in your opinion and why?

 

 

[echotango]

17 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

 

The DPP was the clear winner in form factor in years past, biggest widow, bright dot, etc.

Not really. 

[Rich406]

13 minutes ago, echotango said:

Not really. 

What slide mounted dot had a bigger window? RTS2 was close, most everything else was significantly smaller.

[Rich406]

23 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

what is the current best unit in your opinion and why?

 

 

 

The SRO is looking pretty good. I just got a Romeo 3 Max and that looks good as well. That said, I wouldn't recommend either until their reliability is proven.

[BillR1]

23 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

What slide mounted dot had a bigger window? RTS2 was close, most everything else was significantly smaller.

The Romeo1 was/is a 30mm window, and the 6MOA dot is brighter than anything I've seen yet. It just didn't fit on many guns.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by BillR1

[Cowboy1629]

It will be interesting to see how the new SRO holds up once it has as many in use as the DPP. I hope it is better but only time and numbers will tell. 

[echotango]

3 hours ago, Rich406 said:

What slide mounted dot had a bigger window? RTS2 was close, most everything else was significantly smaller.

 

[Rich406]

2 hours ago, echotango said:

 

Measurements and usable glass size can be 2 different things, according to the chart the rmr is nearly the same height and the vortex razor is slightly larger. I’ve used them all and the DPP had by far the most forgiving window. 
 

The rmr for example counts the glass below the emitter, so while on paper it’s only 1.5 mm less than a DPP, in practice it’s signifigantly less. 
 

in any case, I’m done arguing over the internet about an outdated optic. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Rich406

[echotango]

18 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

Measurements and usable glass size can be 2 different things, according to the chart the rmr is nearly the same height and the vortex razor is slightly larger. I’ve used them all and the DPP had by far the most forgiving window. 
 

The rmr for example counts the glass below the emitter, so while on paper it’s only 1.5 mm less than a DPP, in practice it’s signifigantly less. 
 

in any case, I’m done arguing over the internet about an outdated optic. 

RTS2 is considerably larger in height. I've never considered an rmr so don't know. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by echotango

[race1911]

Time will tell.....the DPP is going thru its formative years and still is very unreliable just as the RTS2 did until eventually with V4 and 5 is now very dependable......problem also with the DPP (besides dependability and lack of a 5 or 6MOA dot) is not its width but its height, a red dot in the screen moves up and down under recoil and not much from side to side so height of viewing window is way more important.......compared to the DPP the 3 best handgun mini optics with best all-around features all share about the same width or more than the DPP,  BUT they all have significantly larger height to the lenses...those are the RTS2, SRO, and Romeo3MAX of which the latter two are yet to prove how dependable they are in the long run

Edited August 22, 2019 by race1911

[shred]

FWIW, it took 3-4 thousand rounds but I got a DPP on an Open frame mount to have the battery-contact slip failure, so it's not limited to just CO slide mounts, although it seems to take longer..

 

[Aforum55]

Dialectic grease will help your battery remain in contact with probes and not "jump around" it's a good preventative measure to ensure your dot doesn't go out mid stage. 

[blueorison]

Big window > SRO (though it is fairly new and not proven. RMR type 1 and 2, I don't trust; seen too many break).

 

I have broken many MRDs, as many of our competitor friends, here, have - even brand names. The tactical community can have their marketing tell them one thing, but RMRs break, all the time. LPP, Venom (pretty much every new one at the range broke), FF1, FF2, Shield, etc.

 

I own CMore, L3, etc. 

 

I exclusively use Burris FF3s. I have not one break. I have waded through ponds and rivers with them fully submerged, uncovered, powered on. They are probably the most inexpensive. 

Hope that helps.

[Malarky112]

On 8/27/2019 at 10:05 PM, blueorison said:

Big window > SRO (though it is fairly new and not proven. RMR type 1 and 2, I don't trust; seen too many break).

 

I have broken many MRDs, as many of our competitor friends, here, have - even brand names. The tactical community can have their marketing tell them one thing, but RMRs break, all the time. LPP, Venom (pretty much every new one at the range broke), FF1, FF2, Shield, etc.

 

I own CMore, L3, etc. 

 

I exclusively use Burris FF3s. I have not one break. I have waded through ponds and rivers with them fully submerged, uncovered, powered on. They are probably the most inexpensive. 

Hope that helps.

How many slide mounted rounds has the Burris endured though? I think that's the real measure for competition shooters. 

[blueorison]

6 minutes ago, Malarky112 said:

How many slide mounted rounds has the Burris endured though? I think that's the real measure for competition shooters. 

 

Great q. 10k+ on the G34MOS factory mount and over 1k on the FsN, which likes to break everything. 

 

Acquaintance's open gun likes to break CMores (which Open shooter doesn't know another that has broken one) and Leupold DPPs.

 

RMR type 2 is what I hear from the tactical guys who wish they were SF. I ask them, "Before after the emitter plates fell off?", and get blank stares. Maybe it wasn't proliferated akin to the echo chamber of a prominent tactical black gun website. I'm sure Trijicon has fixed this. I like that company. I like their magnified optics. I don't like green screens on my red dots, so I can't personally tell you if they are good to go and survive all pistols.

 

Cheers.

Edited October 28, 2019 by blueorison

[Sokam101]

Just had my SRO lose zero from the elevation turret walking on its own under recoil. They want to RMA it.  Im not to happy since I thought it was the most reliable optic. 

[blueorison]

51 minutes ago, Sokam101 said:

Just had my SRO lose zero from the elevation turret walking on its own under recoil. They want to RMA it.  Im not to happy since I thought it was the most reliable optic. 

 

Sorry to hear that. Thank you for sharing this data.

[Malarky112]

4 hours ago, blueorison said:

 

Great q. 10k+ on the G34MOS factory mount and over 1k on the FsN, which likes to break everything. 

 

Acquaintance's open gun likes to break CMores (which Open shooter doesn't know another that has broken one) and Leupold DPPs.

 

RMR type 2 is what I hear from the tactical guys who wish they were SF. I ask them, "Before after the emitter plates fell off?", and get blank stares. Maybe it wasn't proliferated akin to the echo chamber of a prominent tactical black gun website. I'm sure Trijicon has fixed this. I like that company. I like their magnified optics. I don't like green screens on my red dots, so I can't personally tell you if they are good to go and survive all pistols.

 

Cheers.

That’s impressive, thank you. 
I just bought a Shadow with a Jpoint optic on it. I’ve heard most people have had good luck with it but it’s sad I’m already considering it’s replacement once it eventually breaks. 

[OPENB]

A really good local CO shooter recommended I get the best optic from the company with the best warranty, because they all break. That translated into the Vortex Razor. Have to admit I haven’t taken the advise because I’m invested in other sights right now, but if I were starting from scratch, that’s probably what I’d do. Japanese optic, not Chinese or other, and when it breaks, Vortex will have you taken care of in days.