IHAVEGAS Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 18 hours ago, MikeBurgess said: I hear this opinion regularly but I am becoming more of the opinion that what it really means is (please do not take the following as a personal attack or in any way demeaning to anyone) on a given stage one shooter with a incomplete skill set may gain an advantage over another shooter with a different deficit, the fallacy is they both loose because they both have incomplete skill sets. On every super squad, or professional team of any sport, you will find some folks are better at this and some are better at that. Agreed that once in a lifetime you might be lucky enough to see somebody like somebody like Michael Jordan who seems great at everything. 1 hour ago, Rnlinebacker said: Options should provide low cap divisions such as production, single stack, revolver to compete somewhat evenly without having numerous standing reloads. As a low cap shooter I do not see why. If I can not compete with the other folks in my division it just tells me that I need to do more work on my reloads. When my reloads are slick it is fun to gain advantage that way. We do like to bitch though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: How about this theory for why stages with choices are better. In this game we only get to shoot for a few seconds per stage, but we get to work on solving the puzzle of the stage for as long as we want, so a simple stage with no puzzle to solve is just that few seconds of shooting. basically the stage choices are about puzzle solving and talking stage plans with your friends and enjoying that process. That is a very big part of it. When I design stages and people talk about their plans both before and after they shoot, and particularly when they debate which approach was better, I feel good about the stage design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: As a low cap shooter I do not see why. If I can not compete with the other folks in my division it just tells me that I need to do more work on my reloads. When my reloads are slick it is fun to gain advantage that way. We do like to bitch though . Agree. In my "year of the Revolver" where I'm forcing myself to shoot revo every match, I'm realizing that the USPSA is a high-cap game. Even though our MD is a Revo shooter (and new GM), there always a couple stages where I cannot avoid a standing reload. I'm sure this is so he can make a stage that will be fun for the majority of shooters. Luckily for us, we have ICORE here so if I need a low-cap-friendly game, I can go there. Like you say, we're really competing against others in our division so if they are smarter or faster than me, they deserve the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, Mcfoto said: Even though our MD is a Revo shooter (and new GM), there always a couple stages where I cannot avoid a standing reload. I shoot regularly with a GM revolver shooter. Agree with you, but it is fun to watch the stage plans he comes up with that avoid standing reloads, the lions share of the time he finds a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Options are good, but 'memory' stages, by and large, are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, ATLDave said: That is a very big part of it. When I design stages and people talk about their plans both before and after they shoot, and particularly when they debate which approach was better, I feel good about the stage design. motosapiens endorses this post, and Mike Burgess' post that it was in response to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: I shoot regularly with a GM revolver shooter. Agree with you, but it is fun to watch the stage plans he comes up with that avoid standing reloads, the lions share of the time he finds a way. as a longtime singlestack shooter, one of the things I learned is that it's better to do a fast standing reload than a dumb stage plan to try to avoid standing reloads. If your buddy is a gm tho, he probably knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: I shoot regularly with a GM revolver shooter. Agree with you, but it is fun to watch the stage plans he comes up with that avoid standing reloads, the lions share of the time he finds a way. Now that most revo shooters are shooing minor, watching the walkthrough is not a bad thing. Watching a Revo major walkthrough, was mind numbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, shred said: Options are good, but 'memory' stages, by and large, are not. Just because I don't like something does not make it a bad thing, but when you are a lot more concerned about remembering than you are about executing then I get enough of that real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ChuckS said: Watching a Revo major walkthrough, was mind numbing... Indeed. I wish we would not have killed that aspect of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 8:00 AM, motosapiens said: as a longtime singlestack shooter, one of the things I learned is that it's better to do a fast standing reload than a dumb stage plan to try to avoid standing reloads. If your buddy is a gm tho, he probably knows that. Almost always better to just eat the reload, I used to shoot with a good Production shooter that would do dumb stuff to avoid a standing reload even though his reload was super fast, drove me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) Looking at the individual stages in isolation is a mistake - a match should be a balance. There is nothing right or wrong about memory stages, choice stages or one-way stages provided no single stage type becomes dominant. I know I have done a good job with stage design when the competitors tell me "I loved the match, except for that one stage...". Funny thing is the identity of "that one stage" varies from shooter to shooter. A steady diet of candy is not good for the children - sometimes they need a plateful of broccoli Edited July 31, 2019 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Even stages you think should only be shot one way offer choices. I RO at all the matches I shoot. I'm constantly amazed at the variety of stage plans executed on the same stage. Sometimes I think to myself - why on earth did you do it like that. I routinely shoot at three different clubs, and occasionally at a fourth. Each club has their own 'style' of stages. One club shows mostly hoser stages with lots of twists and turns and firing ports in the COF. A second does not have a lot of room in some of the bays, so they present imaginative, high round count (24-32) stages that can be shot multiple ways. They are always a treat. The third has all wide 25 yard bays and the MD (and stage designer) presents highly technical courses that usually require lots of long distance running. A fourth club hosts several Level III matches, so they have all the stuff to make hard stages. And they do just that for their Level I matches. They are actually Level II stages and are a hoot to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty79 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 6:52 AM, MikeBurgess said: How about this theory for why stages with choices are better. In this game we only get to shoot for a few seconds per stage, but we get to work on solving the puzzle of the stage for as long as we want, so a simple stage with no puzzle to solve is just that few seconds of shooting. basically the stage choices are about puzzle solving and talking stage plans with your friends and enjoying that process. Having a stage with multiple options, that aren't mistakes, adds to the fun. It makes me happy to have to think more. This is one of the reasons why your matches are so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 On 8/10/2019 at 5:16 AM, Smitty79 said: Having a stage with multiple options, that aren't mistakes, adds to the fun. It makes me happy to have to think more. This is one of the reasons why your matches are so good. I think mistakes or not finding the best plan you can execute is probably what makes it more fun. Watching a couple hundred shooters run a medium size stage this weekend I can say that there was a clear best plan (only saw one shooter attempt because very hard) then a second best plan and then a bunch of variations of plans that were several seconds off pace. I guess to say using one of the plans that was several seconds off pace was a mistake is an over statement, as our game is to a certain extent more about damage control than winning stages, shooting pretty well and avoiding dumpster fires is usually a recipe for success, so running a more conservative plan, that you know you can execute may be a better option than a plan that could win a stage but has a higher risk of going off the rails. That said having the ability to run the aggressive plan while shooting within your ability is the real path to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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