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oddjob

Walther Q5 Match steel frame or Sig 320 Legion?

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For those who have handled/shot both....Which do you prefer and why? 

 

thanks

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6 hours ago, oddjob said:

For those who have handled/shot both....Which do you prefer and why? 

 

thanks

I do not own either, but have just recently handled both. The  Walther points better for me,and I like the feel of the grip. The X5 had the best trigger and the weight of the gun felt more neutral. Both, have a higher bore axis than I care for.

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I bought a Q5 Match SF two weeks ago. Shot it at one match so far and have about 500 rounds through it. I also was at an area gun store today and was able to handle and dry fire the X5 Legion. The store also had another Q5 Match SF in stock so I was able to compare both. I could have purchased the X5 Legion (they had two in stock), but decided not to do so. I'll try to share my impressions for you in detail.

 

I like "grippier" grips. The texture on the X5 Legion would require grip tape at a minimum to suit my tastes. The trigger on the Legion X5 is just under 4 pounds, but it feels "mushy" to me. The trigger on the Walther is around 5 pounds, but just feels and breaks better (granted I've fired 500 rounds through mine). I dry fired both guns with a "normal support hand grip" (not a crushing support hand grip). I watched the front fiber optic sight while pointing at an off-white wall. In the X5 Legion I noticed that unless I used more support hand grip pressure that the front sight did move subtly to the left when I pulled the trigger back with a constant rolling (not jerky) trigger press. The front sight on the Walther did not budge at all. I preferred the Walther trigger. I would note that in a match if you grip it hard it probably would be fine, but that is one of the ways that I check out triggers.

 

The Walther seemed to fit in my hand better (subjective, but it just "felt better in my hand"). I like the Walther front strap serrations and grip texture. The Walther grip can be replaced (LOK just came out with a boogie grip for it I believe).

 

The X5 Legion is a "tad" heavier and they are balanced a bit differently, but both felt "okay" in that respect (no preference for one or the other based on weight).

 

I did notice a little "wiggle" when testing the slide to frame fit, but it was not bad (I've read a couple of comments in the Sig forum about people noticing lots of play in the slide).

 

In examining both guns together, dry-firing, and racking the slides, etc., the Walther does just seem to be engineered at a higher level. Granted the Walther is $600 more than the Legion (and I did buy one). I told the guy showing me the gun that I would go eat lunch, think about it, and return and let him know (very helpful chap that let me try some standard 17 round Sig magazines in it (did not insert enough to go to slide lock when racking the slide--would have to change out the base plates)). I returned, held the X5 Legion again and said, "thanks for all the help, but I'm going to pass on it."

 

I do not have any buyer's remorse about the Walther Q5 Steel Frame and I will be shooting it in USPSA Production and some IDPA. I may eventually try an optic (that was one of the reasons I was looking at the Walther SF or X5 Legion). I did watch a few of the recent video "reviews" of the X5 Legion and think that some of them are "hyped" to a degree (one noting "Hall of Fame Worthy?" after just a few rounds down range). It is the "new kid on the block" right now and a tendency to hype the gun a bit is probably to be expected.

 

 

Edited by Steppenwolf

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I had a chance to shoot the X-five Legion today (about 100 rounds with various shooting goal) and I’m a PPQ Q5 SF owner....and I think the X5 Legion is a great value.  

 

My splits were about the same and I think I’m a bit more accurate with the SF but I attribute that to 1500 rounds through the SF.  

 

As mentioned above, I do agree that the SF is higher quality and I prefer the feel in my hand.  

 

The SF has a better trigger but the X5 Legion trigger is the best P320 based version I’ve tested (and I’ve shot my regular X5 with the gray guns upgrades and I didn’t find it better).  The X5 is lighter but not as crisp as the SF and the reset is worse. 

 

I’m happy to crap on Sig (after being a beta tester for the first 226 Legions and having 2 bad P365s)....BUT I think they have a USPSA production winner on their hands assuming it makes the list.  But it’s still limited for carry optics to the Sig red dots (without a plate to convert to better red dots).  

 

As far as overhyped - all new competition pistols are hyped at launch but there aren’t many options at this weight and price that are as competent.  So I get the hype but don’t let that keep you from checking it out if you can. 

 

Not it sure if I’m keeping my SF or not at this point...which says a lot. 

Edited by uhmeebuh

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2 hours ago, uhmeebuh said:

But it’s still limited for carry optics to the Sig red dots (without a plate to convert to better red dots).  

 

The X5 Legion is cut for the Romeo 1 Pro and Romeo 2 according to their description which from what I understand is the same as the DeltaPoint Pro. Will know for sure in a few days when mine arrives. 

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43 minutes ago, Cowboy1629 said:

 

The X5 Legion is cut for the Romeo 1 Pro and Romeo 2 according to their description which from what I understand is the same as the DeltaPoint Pro. Will know for sure in a few days when mine arrives. 

 

Sorry - I should have been clearer to what I was referring to.  I meant the sigs are still limited compared to other red

dots available with plate systems (glock MOS, Walther PPQ Q5, etc).  

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For now, Seems the DPP foot print , with military adoption is gonna work its way into industry standard , with the plates going away.

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3 hours ago, Joe4d said:

For now, Seems the DPP foot print , with military adoption is gonna work its way into industry standard , with the plates going away.

 

The military adopted the DPP? 

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45 minutes ago, abigger04 said:

 

The military adopted the DPP? 

 

Do some googling on the Sig M17. Yes. The military spec’d a DPP footprint.

 

In a perfect world that would become the standardized footprint, and from this day forward all optics would be interchangeable.

 

Never going to happen. But it would be ideal for us shooters.

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59 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Do some googling on the Sig M17. Yes. The military spec’d a DPP footprint.

 

In a perfect world that would become the standardized footprint, and from this day forward all optics would be interchangeable.

 

Never going to happen. But it would be ideal for us shooters.

 

Nice!  I knew about the Sig M17, but I hadn't heard that about the DPP till now.  I'm glad.  

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On 7/28/2019 at 8:38 PM, uhmeebuh said:

As mentioned above, I do agree that the SF is higher quality and I prefer the feel in my hand.  

 

I've been really disappointed in the QC control coming from Sig lately and the frequency of the "latest" model obsolescence.

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I shot two matches with the 320 Legion and I’m enjoying the stock rolling trigger. Coming from Stock 2s changes mag at 1s par time is easier. I’ve handled a Q5 SF multiple times and it has a nice hand feel and very nice trigger. I would guess at speed it doesn’t matter so it comes down to how they feel in you hand. If it fits and points well you’re gtg. Lastly the 320 grip width, straight trigger and back of slide profile remind me of 2011s. So if that’s what you’re used to it’s something to keep in mind.


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On 7/28/2019 at 11:58 PM, Cowboy1629 said:

 

The X5 Legion is cut for the Romeo 1 Pro and Romeo 2 according to their description which from what I understand is the same as the DeltaPoint Pro. Will know for sure in a few days when mine arrives. 

 

On 7/29/2019 at 6:43 AM, Joe4d said:

For now, Seems the DPP foot print , with military adoption is gonna work its way into industry standard , with the plates going away.

 

Really strange about the Legion using a Romeo1/2/DPP footprint cut because their newest red dot the  Romeo3MAX coming out shares the same footprint as the RTS2

Edited by race1911

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On 8/11/2019 at 6:13 AM, race1911 said:

 

 

Really strange about the Legion using a Romeo1/2/DPP footprint cut because their newest red dot the  Romeo3MAX coming out shares the same footprint as the RTS2

don't understand either, Legion should mount R3Max directly witthout plate...

Edited by highhope

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Handled both and ended up with the Walther.

I liked the balance better on the SF and despite the grips being a tad too thick for me, pointed and handled better.

Trigger is a no contest win for the Walther despite it being heavier and a smidge longer reset. Just could not get a feel for the squishy Sig trigger.

If you have bigger hands, the Sig has longer grips and will fit better. I have small hands and my palm is at the end of the grip.

Sig sights looked better, but I was going to go with a dot anyway so that didn’t play into my decision.


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The SF is way to small for my hand with the large adapter on it.

It is also way to short length wise I can't get a magazine in it without opening up the bottom of my hand. Nice gun if it fit.

I already owned x-5 and 320's so going to the Tungsten grip was an easy choice.

 

Both guns do what they are intended for well.

Think the SIG is priced slightly more reasonably.  Street price is already coming down. Into the low to mid 800's

at my local shops and they seem to be readily available. SIG put enough out and is still sending them based on the "born dates on the box.

 

Small -med hands either will work

Med/large to XXL hands think the SIG is the only option then. 

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I can’t comment on the Q5. I do love my legion. To me I need 3 things good trigger good sights and the gun needs to run and be reasonably accurate. The sig comes with a nice set of FO adjustable sights, my trigger measured 3lb 4oz on my gage and it feels clean to me. I don’t notice the squish everyone is talking about. The gun has run 100% and it shoots inch groups at 25 yds. The only bummer was finding I needed an adapter plate to mount a romeo 3max 

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If you're not going to be getting paid from Walther contingency, the q5 SF is certainly way way overpriced. And this is coming from someone who just bought one.

There is more aftermarket support for the Sig, by far, as well. 

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I've been shooting Tanfos in Production, SSP, ESP and wanted to try carry optics.  I didn't want to mill into my Tanfos.  I had a chance on a great deal on a new Q5 SF at a shop that was closing down but passed...it was still a little expensive.  I also thought the grip felt a little short and a little nose heavy.  I good deal on a new X5 Legion came around and I bought it.

 

I was weaned on a fantastic plastic Glock 34 in early competition days and always dreamed of a heavy G34.  That I thought would be the perfect competition gun (for my divisions).  Well, the Legion is the closest thing I've seen to that.  The tungsten infused grip still has the fantastic plastic feel but the weight is there.  I added a Bobro Trijicon SRO plate which comes with a rear site on it.  Mounted an SRO and also added a high Dawson front site to match the rear iron sites.  I made sure and put in a green fiber rod so I wouldn't see 2 red dots.  I also got some Sig 21-round magazines.  The trigger is still stock and very doable at 3.75 pounds.  I'll probably put a Grey Guns trigger kit in it to upgrade it and drop the trigger weight a little.

 

Its a great shooting gun and I enjoy moving back from SA/DA hammer to striker fired.  Reminds me of my old G34 days.

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I have both, I like both. The tipping point as been now the the SF is reliable, which it wasn't at first with low PF ammo, was the lok grip thin grip which changed it to more familiar and changed my grip so my thumb knuckle doesnt dig into the beaver tail angle. The X5 Legion is just dead reliable, isn't picky about anything, uses 1911 springs right out of the box so easy to tune to your PF. Only thing I hate about the Legion is the round indication notch in the barrel vents dirty gases into the optic even its its pretty rear mounted like mine is. In short, neither is perfect out of the box, and I think you could make either work just fine.

 

 

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I haven’t found gas fouling to be an issue on the 320 Legions. One of mine has a SRO and another Romeo 1 pro. See the dot just fine through a match and the trigger out of the box is gtg. The grip actually feels better without grip tape.


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On 11/25/2019 at 9:34 PM, ABQautoxer said:

I have both, I like both. The tipping point as been now the the SF is reliable, which it wasn't at first with low PF ammo, was the lok grip thin grip which changed it to more familiar and changed my grip so my thumb knuckle doesnt dig into the beaver tail angle. The X5 Legion is just dead reliable, isn't picky about anything, uses 1911 springs right out of the box so easy to tune to your PF. Only thing I hate about the Legion is the round indication notch in the barrel vents dirty gases into the optic even its its pretty rear mounted like mine is. In short, neither is perfect out of the box, and I think you could make either work just fine.

 

 

what did you do for Q5sf realiable? Thanks

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15 hours ago, highhope said:

what did you do for Q5sf realiable? Thanks

First easy fix was stop running sub 140pf ammo. After the OE spring/pistol broke in which took at least 700 rounds, it started started accepting 135pf ammo too. To completely fix it, per recommendations from a couple guys here that happen to be on here as well, I installed a ZF guide rods on them with 13lbs flatwire 1911 5" springs. This sorted out everything and so far it seems to like 130pf ammo again. I liked it so much, I bought a second one so my GF and I can both run SF's in carry optics and I dont have to tinker with two different pistols types.

 

The X5 was never this picky, If you were at 130pf, you ran the 12lbs spring it came with though I thought a 13lbs spring was better (faster action). 

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On 11/25/2019 at 8:34 PM, ABQautoxer said:

I have both, I like both. The tipping point as been now the the SF is reliable, which it wasn't at first with low PF ammo, was the lok grip thin grip which changed it to more familiar and changed my grip so my thumb knuckle doesnt dig into the beaver tail angle. The X5 Legion is just dead reliable, isn't picky about anything, uses 1911 springs right out of the box so easy to tune to your PF. Only thing I hate about the Legion is the round indication notch in the barrel vents dirty gases into the optic even its its pretty rear mounted like mine is. In short, neither is perfect out of the box, and I think you could make either work just fine.

 

 


Sig will replace that barrel for free. 
 

hoping Glock‘s big announcement on 12/10 is a tungsten 34 but I bet that’s like a 3% chance. 

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On 11/25/2019 at 8:34 PM, ABQautoxer said:

I have both, I like both. The tipping point as been now the the SF is reliable, which it wasn't at first with low PF ammo, was the lok grip thin grip which changed it to more familiar and changed my grip so my thumb knuckle doesnt dig into the beaver tail angle. The X5 Legion is just dead reliable, isn't picky about anything, uses 1911 springs right out of the box so easy to tune to your PF. Only thing I hate about the Legion is the round indication notch in the barrel vents dirty gases into the optic even its its pretty rear mounted like mine is. In short, neither is perfect out of the box, and I think you could make either work just fine.

 

 

 

Which grips did you go with?  The thin appears to change the angle but that might not be the case...

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