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Southpaw320

Struggling with recalling sight picture

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This is my first year shooting USPSA.  I have shot for many years but never like this.  My issue is that when I shoot a stage and shoot it well for my ability, I don’t remember or recall anything about the sights/dot when I’m finished.  Whenever I try to shoot to the point where I watch the sight lift and return, I feel sluggish and end up second guessing shots and that affects the next string.

 

Anyone else experience this and is this something that I need to attempt to correct at this stage of my journey?  I’m currently an unclassified CO shooter (should have classification after this weekend) but shoot C class classifiers and finish middle of the pack at local matches.  I feel learning the game at this point is more of my problem than gun handling/shooting.

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I am finishing my fourth year of competing and have experienced what you describe. Some of it is the huge adrenaline rush one gets from a COF on the clock. At this time, I see it starting to lessen to some degree. The best way overcome this is to dry fire like crazy and live fire to verify your dry fire. The goal is to make the physical part "automatic" so that when the buzzer goes off, so does the brain and the body knows what to do. My guess is time is the best solution.

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6 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

I am finishing my fourth year of competing and have experienced what you describe. Some of it is the huge adrenaline rush one gets from a COF on the clock. At this time, I see it starting to lessen to some degree. The best way overcome this is to dry fire like crazy and live fire to verify your dry fire. The goal is to make the physical part "automatic" so that when the buzzer goes off, so does the brain and the body knows what to do. My guess is time is the best solution.

 

I do dry fire several times a week and was thinking that possibly that my brain is kinda on autopilot from that process.  Like I said, those are the best times/scores that I get when I can’t recall the “process”.

 

Thanks for your input.

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This is my first year shooting USPSA.  I have shot for many years but never like this.  My issue is that when I shoot a stage and shoot it well for my ability, I don’t remember or recall anything about the sights/dot when I’m finished.  Whenever I try to shoot to the point where I watch the sight lift and return, I feel sluggish and end up second guessing shots and that affects the next string.
 
Anyone else experience this and is this something that I need to attempt to correct at this stage of my journey?  I’m currently an unclassified CO shooter (should have classification after this weekend) but shoot C class classifiers and finish middle of the pack at local matches.  I feel learning the game at this point is more of my problem than gun handling/shooting.
IMO When shooting a stage you should CONSCIOUSLY be thinking of your trigger pull, feeling your grip (specifically the support hand/wrist), confirming the sight LIFTING visually. Also, visually you should be transitioning to the next target as the second shot sight lift is peaking.

Seeing the sight return is time wasted as the bullet had already left barrel on first couple millimeters of lift.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, Rnlinebacker said:

IMO When shooting a stage you should CONSCIOUSLY be thinking of your trigger pull, feeling your grip (specifically the support hand/wrist), confirming the sight LIFTING visually. Also, visually you should be transitioning to the next target as the second shot sight lift is peaking.

Seeing the sight return is time wasted as the bullet had already left barrel on first couple millimeters of lift.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 

 

Noted, thanks

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Look up Ben Stoeger's doubles drill and work with it. It will help you diagnose your grip and stance so that you can recognize an acceptable sight picture to break a shot and not have to spend the time tracking the whole recoil impulse.

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6 minutes ago, limitedgun said:

Look up Ben Stoeger's doubles drill and work with it. It will help you diagnose your grip and stance so that you can recognize an acceptable sight picture to break a shot and not have to spend the time tracking the whole recoil impulse.

 

I’ll look into it, thanks.

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Do lots of Bill Drills also. You will learn your gun and all the tendencies very quickly.

 

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I don’t think it is a big deal that you can remember all your sight pictures during a stage. I would suggesting thinking about if you remember any bad shot calls and then confirming with the round placements on the targets. Trying to remember specific sight pictures, stage plans and everything else is a lot to think about. 

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1 hour ago, EA308 said:

I don’t think it is a big deal that you can remember all your sight pictures during a stage. I would suggesting thinking about if you remember any bad shot calls and then confirming with the round placements on the targets. Trying to remember specific sight pictures, stage plans and everything else is a lot to think about. 

Thanks for the input. 

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You are likely not seeing the sight picture. Yet. 

 

Calling shots is a skill you have to work on and it's not something you start with. In many ways it's counterintuitive. What you're doing is not so much using vision to align the sights, but to recognize the exact sight alignment at the time you fired the shot. Different concept.

 

What helped me and what I do from time to time (I'm still working on calling shots even if I can reliably hit very hard targets consistently) is the drills you find online and in many shooting books - just shoot into the berm and only recognize the sights. Specifically, where they were as you fired, how far they went up, etc. In a match, you won't be looking at the sights past the point of "bang," but it's quite informative to force your eyes and your brain to recognize and track sights during violent and loud event such as firing a gun during practice. 

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^ +1. It's all in the dry fire and range time (times 100+)

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With this being the first year for this endeavor, I’m still figuring out many things with my gun.  It is definitely not the same gun that I started with, I have made several wholesale changes to it.  So every time I shoot, I’m learning it.  I’ve heard so many people talk about calling your shot and I’m familiar with it from shooting distance with a rifle.  Obviously 2 different creatures when you are going faster during a match.  I need to spend some time at the range doing it slow to get that going.

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Just don't spend all of your range time with slow practice. Fast now and then lets you find out if all your practice is working the way it should.

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8 minutes ago, Bench said:

Just don't spend all of your range time with slow practice. Fast now and then lets you find out if all your practice is working the way it should.

Yep, usually do a lot of doubles and some steel plate work pretty quickly.   I was just thinking slow to figure out shot calling for now.

 

Thanks

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20 hours ago, Southpaw320 said:

I was just thinking slow to figure out shot calling for now.

 

Once you think you have it figured out, go fast on a medium distance target, e.g. a fast draw on a 15 yard target, and fire a single shot. Close your eyes or turn around and make a mental note of where you last saw the sights, then compare with the location of the hit on the target. If you can get this correctly consistently, you're reading your sights. Otherwise... 

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On 7/26/2019 at 8:38 AM, Southpaw320 said:

This is my first year shooting USPSA.  I have shot for many years but never like this.  My issue is that when I shoot a stage and shoot it well for my ability, I don’t remember or recall anything about the sights/dot when I’m finished.  Whenever I try to shoot to the point where I watch the sight lift and return, I feel sluggish and end up second guessing shots and that affects the next string.

 

Anyone else experience this and is this something that I need to attempt to correct at this stage of my journey?  I’m currently an unclassified CO shooter (should have classification after this weekend) but shoot C class classifiers and finish middle of the pack at local matches.  I feel learning the game at this point is more of my problem than gun handling/shooting.

I know this is not what you are looking to hear... :) And here it comes... But, If you don't learn what it means to call every shot, and then do that, you will never progress beyond a certain point. Trust me, you can learn to know where every shot will hit the target at the moment you fire, as fast as you cannot know that. More on that here. In the end, the decisiveness of shot calling will bring you all the speed you need.

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11 minutes ago, benos said:

I know this is not what you are looking to hear... :) And here it comes... But, If you don't learn what it means to call every shot, and then do that, you will never progress beyond a certain point. Trust me, you can learn to know where every shot will hit the target at the moment you fire, as fast as you cannot know that. More on that here. In the end, the decisiveness of shot calling will bring you all the speed you need.

It’s exactly what I’m looking to hear!  I have read a bunch of those topics and plan on working on this process.  Since there is so much to try to work on at this point, I didn’t know if I would be better off working other skills more than this in the beginning.  

 

Thanks

 

 

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It takes time for the brain to catch up with the eyes while you are having to think about so many other tasks like where to stand, when to reload, order of targets, etc. I cannot remmeber the very accomplished shooter who once said that he is finally seeing things well. Takes practice.

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On 8/7/2019 at 6:44 PM, 11MM said:

It takes time for the brain to catch up with the eyes while you are having to think about so many other tasks like where to stand, when to reload, order of targets, etc. I cannot remmeber the very accomplished shooter who once said that he is finally seeing things well. Takes practice.

 

Thanks for your input.  I know I’m seeing it and processing it, or I wouldn’t be getting the hits so to speak.  It’s just that everything else is happening and I’m not registering it in the end.

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33 minutes ago, Southpaw320 said:

 

Thanks for your input.  I know I’m seeing it and processing it, or I wouldn’t be getting the hits so to speak.  It’s just that everything else is happening and I’m not registering it in the end.

It’s starts with calling 1 shot at a time, so when you learn to call a marginal hit by the end of stage you have a pretty good idea of how many Cs you shot. 

 

 

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I would say, it doesn't matter if you remember what you did after the stage, but it really matters if you know where your hits are going in the moment. Do you ever take a makeup shot to fix a shot called a D or Mike? The answer to that is important.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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I would say, it doesn't matter if you remember what you did after the stage, but it really matters if you know where your hits are going in the moment. Do you ever take a makeup shot to fix a shot called a D or Mike? The answer to that is important.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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I can call my shots and am very rarely surprised by a Mike or a Delta, but I don't usually have a clear memory of exactly what my sights did during a stage. The only targets I have a clear picture of are 20 yard plus partials, heads, or mini poppers. 

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