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CSEMARTIN

Breech Face Erosion

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Update.....

 

I have yet to hear back from Winchester.  I have ~20,000 primers for sale if anyone is interested (I'm kidding)!  I'd like Winchester to take them back and refund my money.

 

Pullman has not responded to me.

 

Les Baer wants me to send them the slide first before telling me my options, but I suspect they are going to want to put a new slide on the gun, and if so, that will be the most expensive fix by far.  And I'm not really that confident in the rockwell hardness of their steel.

 

Jim at Innovativecustomguns.com e-mailed me on Sunday.  He does micro tig welding and quoted me $125 - $150 dollars.

 

Logan Clark at  Clark Custom Guns e-mailed me this morning.  They drill out the corroded area and replace it with a hardened steel plug.  This is the most exciting news.  They charge $8 dollars for materials, $21.30 in labor plus shipping.  

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On 7/31/2019 at 12:48 AM, CSEMARTIN said:

I think that is a reasonable question to ask BoyGlock.  Here is my reasoning for wanting this fixed:

1)I don't like it. 

2)I don't want to wait for a problem to develop months or years from now and then try to get Winchester to cover the repairs.

In my countty I dont have much choice. We dont have those warranty parts so we are virtually on our own to wait for any outcome hoping its not unsafe. You are quite lucky. 

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2 hours ago, CSEMARTIN said:

And I'm not really that confident in the rockwell hardness of their steel.

 

 

Be advised - hardness of the steel has very little to do with it's ability to resist gas cutting (which is what your primers caused, same thing as cutting with an oxy/acetylene or plasma torch). Harder steel is generally harder to machine or grind, but even hard steels like AR500, tool steels, and most knife blades are easily cut with flame. Looking for a harder steel slide or breech face repair will not prevent this from happening again. 

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4 hours ago, CSEMARTIN said:

l.

 

Jim at Innovativecustomguns.com e-mailed me on Sunday.  He does micro tig welding and quoted me $125 - $150 dollars.

 

Logan Clark at  Clark Custom Guns e-mailed me this morning.  They drill out the corroded area and replace it with a hardened steel plug.  This is the most exciting news.  They charge $8 dollars for materials, $21.30 in labor plus shipping.  

Thanks for the update and info!

I have a Gans that has some erosion. I noticed it shortly after I bought it, I don’t know if it was with the previous owner or me. It hasn’t progressed but it’s nice to know there are economical repair options.

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If you need to reach Winchester about any problems with gun damage, primer issues, etc., this is the name and number nobody at Winchster will tell you:

 

Jake

jchanks@olin.com

618.258.2738 (Direct Line)

 

It took me three weeks to get this intel.  They dodged me.  Didn't return calls.  Played dumb.  Excuse after another.  It was quite irritating but persistence paid off.

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FWIW I had this same problem. It was caused by using Remington brass. The primer pockets are wide and caused leakage. This caused erosion. I have a Baer and use Winchester primers without a problem. Good luck with your problem. 

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I've used Federal small pistol primers and now CCI small rifle, probably about 20k rounds. 9 major. Some wear but nothing like that. Gun is dirty but i'm lazy.3d354a317c10e8e21d6810c8356fcbdf.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

Edited by sc68cal

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32 minutes ago, sc68cal said:

I've used Federal small pistol primers and now CCI small rifle, probably about 20k rounds. 9 major. Some wear but nothing like that. Gun is dirty but i'm lazy.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

 

remove the 🙊  burrs from the corner. gun don't need to suffer another 20k.

u are really lazy 😉

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4 minutes ago, yigal said:

 

u are really lazy 😉

 

That comment was uncalled for. He took the time to be helpful. What have you done?

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It's my patented "Field expedient fitting of a replacement charging handle before an Area Match by a desk jockey with a dremel and file"

 

Ah, I also see that burr in the breech face. Hasn't hurt anything and i don't think I have a file or tool small enough to get there without marring anything else.

Edited by sc68cal

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55 minutes ago, yigal said:

 

remove the 🙊  burrs from the corner. gun don't need to suffer another 20k.

u are really lazy 😉

Attitude
Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.
No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.
Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable.
No trolling. No alternate accounts.

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Can't see much of the charging handle in that picture.

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Chris,

Sorry to hear about your breech face problems.  Hope you get this taken care of soon.

Years ago I almost bought a 40sw LTD pistol until I saw pitting on the breech face, very

similar to your LB.  I have not seen another one since that, but have heard of primer 

blow back and breech faces being damaged.  I'd give LB an opportunity to fix the 

problem.  Hopefully he'd replace the side on his dime.  If not Clark Custom sounds

like they have done this before.

Ron

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On 9/27/2019 at 12:25 AM, 2tuf4u said:

I have a list of reported bad Winchester lot #-PM me for a copy.

Thank you.

I have been in contact with Winchester, and the lot number of my primers was not on their list (so they say).  They are still agreeable to take them back.

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On 7/24/2019 at 12:06 PM, CSEMARTIN said:

This is a Les Baer Premier II that was machined for a 45 firing pin several years ago because of erosion around the firing pin hole.  Now I am seeing more prominent erosion of the breech.

 

Should this be repaired? I e-mailed Brenda at Les Baer yesterday and haven't heard back.  Can it be welded up?  Ignore it and keep shooting?

 

I have sentimental attachment to this gun, and I want to make this problem go away.  The gun's name is Larry.  He is very special to me.  Please help!  Thank you

 

Would really like to see pics of your spent casings/primers/primer pockets. If you are running over pressure loads (SAAMI spec) this may just be the cost of doing business. If you are running SAAMI spec loads there may be another issue that needs to be addressed. I'd want to find the source of the problem, not a fix for the symptoms.

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On 10/4/2019 at 9:19 PM, Dranoel said:

 

I'd want to find the source of the problem, not a fix for the symptoms.

 

I agree with this.  The erosion I saw happened on one day with two pistols.  One of the pistols was one I had just finished building, and I have photos of the build.  I am certain of the cause.  Regardless of what Winchester is claiming, the primers they sold me caused this problem.  I have used this round for over 15 years with multiple 1911s.  The only problems I have had in the distant past were with my Les Baer.  The pistol I built on a Nighthawk Custom platform had erosion after 43 rounds.

 

The load I'm using is 4.6 grains of WST, OAL 1.25", .470 crimp and a 230g RN Zero bullet.  Depending on the temperature, it makes 168,000 - 173,000 power factor. I doubt I'm having pressure issues with this load. The only variable I have not taken into consideration is using mixed brass.  However, I have used other Winchester primers from a different lot without any problems.

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Winchester has finally made right on their promise to take the primers back and reimburse me.  After a 4+ month ordeal of numerous e-mails and phone calls, they sent me a check in November.   

 

I greatly appreciate those that helped me through this process.

 

Chris

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On 12/20/2019 at 8:57 AM, CSEMARTIN said:

Winchester has finally made right on their promise to take the primers back and reimburse me.  After a 4+ month ordeal of numerous e-mails and phone calls, they sent me a check in November.   

 

I greatly appreciate those that helped me through this process.

 

Chris

Glad they finally took care of you. Did you get the slide fixed, If so what option did you go with?

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11 hours ago, louu said:

Glad they finally took care of you. Did you get the slide fixed, If so what option did you go with?

 

They offered to reimburse me for the repairs.  I have not done this, but when I do, I will likely go with Clark Custom to have the breech drilled out and have them install a hardened steel plug.  Initially I was told they could not make the repair.  Then a couple of weeks later, I received an e-mail from Justin Clark indicating that he believed he could get it repair.  He said he would have to see it first which I think is reasonable.  The other option is to have it micro-tig welded.  Option three is to send the gun back to Les Baer to have another slide fit to the gun.  The gun I built is going to get left alone.  I spent 16 days with Bob Marvel building that gun over a course of 5 months.  It's not going anywhere.  I'm not letting anyone touch that pistol.  The damage is minor so I think I will just live with it for now.

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I'd go with the TiG welding vs a plug in the breech face.  The weld will be permanent and your slide will be one piece.  With the plug, there's always a chance it will come loose or cause other problems.  Also, with the weld, I don't think you'd have any problem selling it if you decide to.  With the plug, most people aren't going to want to go anywhere near it.

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10 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

I'd go with the TiG welding vs a plug in the breech face.  The weld will be permanent and your slide will be one piece.  With the plug, there's always a chance it will come loose or cause other problems.  Also, with the weld, I don't think you'd have any problem selling it if you decide to.  With the plug, most people aren't going to want to go anywhere near it.

 

I appreciate this advice.  Even though I'd never sell this 1911 because it is my first one, I don't like the idea of the plug coming loose.  With tig welding, I'm not sure how the gunsmith is going smooth everything out.  And I don't want him changing the hood to breech dimension.

 

9 hours ago, Ming the Merciless said:

If Winchester is going to reimburse you for the repairs, I would send it to Les Baer and have them put on a new slide.  Their repair turn around time is very good.

 

I have been struggling with this decision.  If the gun didn't have sentimental value to me, I'd do this.  This gun has put a lot of trophies on the wall (with some help from me), and I really want to keep it as original as possible.  Plus this gun runs really well and I'm superstitious.

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Had this happen to me about 15 years ago; was shooting a LOT of factory frangible ammo. Not as deep cuts as yours, but it was a tidy little ring around the firing pin hole. 

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