Can I shoot these Remington 130gr factory rounds?

[ysrracer]

They're factory .38 special 130gr going 800 fps, for a power factor of 104. Can I shoot them in an ICORE match?

Edited July 24, 2019 by ysrracer

[jcc7x7]

PF is 120 in ICORE IIRC.

and usually factory ammo DOESN"T produce what it says on the box in a Revolver.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Maybe, if you have a Very Long barrel.      

[revoman]

Mike Homm is on the board of ICORE and is currently testing factory Ammo to see if any would make power factor. Mike is currently working on this to try and help those who do not reload. If you happen to find 158 grain at minimum of 760 that would put you at 120 pf and that is also determined by barrel length. 

[mchapman]

There are a lot of things that can make a difference in the muzzle velocity. I have a 4 inch 627 that always shoots the same load at least 5 to 10 PF higher than the same load through a 5 inch 627 that I have. tighter or looser barrel dimensions and differences in cylinder gaps. I am using 150 grain coated in short colt cases.

5 inch 627=   110 to 118 PF

4 inch 627 =  126 to 131 PF

6 1/2 in 627= 131 to 138PF

6 1/2 in 929 =  139 to 145 PF

These are just some of the results I have had shooting the same load through different guns.

[RangerMcFadden]

Is this for a local match? Or is it a regional/IRC?

 

if it’s a local, shoot what ever you’d like no one is gonna chrono you.

[mchapman]

15 hours ago, ysrracer said:

They're factory .38 special 130gr going 800 fps, for a power factor of 104. Can I shoot them in an ICORE match?

These will work well for Steel Challenge.

[ysrracer]

15 hours ago, revoman said:

Mike is currently working on this to try and help those who do not reload. 

 

That's my situation, I don't reload yet.

 

Thanks for all the info.

[revoman]

There are some 158grain +p 38 special out there that runs about 900 FPS for about 142 pf. If you are going to shoot 130 grain you will need to look for something at 950 fps.  

[pskys2]

There used to be certain factory 38 specials that were accepted without chrono in ICORE.  I just don't know which, contact ICORE officers to see.

[revoman]

Just now, pskys2 said:

There used to be certain factory 38 specials that were accepted without chrono in ICORE.  I just don't know which, contact ICORE officers to see.

That went away and they are trying to bring it back. That is why Mike Homm is testing ammo to see which they will accept. If you have any ammo that you think would make power factor email Mike on the Icore web page.

[jhgtyre]

I'd much rather see them test a wide range of factory offerings and then adjust the power factor to match their findings.  It's way too easy to show up with a box of "factory" ammo that isn't what the label says it is just to get out of having to chrono.  IDPA lowered the PF for revo down to 105 and I think that is a bit more in tune with factory offerings.

[pyrrhic3gun]

Maybe you could find some "California loads" in .357...they might make ICORE powerfactor.  :^)

Of course that might be fun and we both know that's against the law in CA.  :^)

[pyrrhic3gun]

Seriously, though.  If you look at SGammo.com they have a few 38 spl loads that claim to make the ICORE pf (120).

S&B and PPU are two examples.  Once you find a couple that look possible, maybe you can find them at your local ammo dealer.

You may have to adjust your strain screw to set them off, but perfection may not be available.  :^)

Edited July 30, 2019 by pyrrhic3gun

[Joe4d]

Where did they get 120 pf ? 
I know where USPSA minor and major come from, but FAIK, Icore is a service revolver game and 38spc 158's are pretty much standard for a century. I just chrono'd my factory 158 g SWC for a pin match as I was short of ammo. Came up 758 with a 5 inch S&W...
I m new to revolvers. Was older 38 loaded faster than it is today ?

[pskys2]

3 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Where did they get 120 pf ? 
I know where USPSA minor and major come from, but FAIK, Icore is a service revolver game and 38spc 158's are pretty much standard for a century. I just chrono'd my factory 158 g SWC for a pin match as I was short of ammo. Came up 758 with a 5 inch S&W...
I m new to revolvers. Was older 38 loaded faster than it is today ?

No, but a 158 at 760 is 120, I'm pretty sure that's where it came from.

[PatJones]

Where did they get 120 pf ?

That's the power factor at the Bianchi Cup.

[Carmoney]

On 7/25/2019 at 8:21 PM, revoman said:

That went away and they are trying to bring it back. That is why Mike Homm is testing ammo to see which they will accept. If you have any ammo that you think would make power factor email Mike on the Icore web page.

 

I'm of the opinion that ICORE should allow any factory ammo at sanctioned matches, regardless of whether it makes the 120 P.F. or not.  However, I am also of the opinion that falling steel targets should be calibrated to always fall with a good 120 P.F. hit.  It's not really practicable to try to set steel any lighter--especially when conditions are windy.  

[alecmc]

7 hours ago, Carmoney said:

 

I'm of the opinion that ICORE should allow any factory ammo at sanctioned matches, regardless of whether it makes the 120 P.F. or not.  However, I am also of the opinion that falling steel targets should be calibrated to always fall with a good 120 P.F. hit.  It's not really practicable to try to set steel any lighter--especially when conditions are windy.  

 

 

Mike,

 

We actually just changed the rules to include a variety of factory ammo that is chrono exempt. This hopefully will help non-reloaders and international shooters. The new rule book just came out for this year ( 2020 )

 

5.3.1. A competitor using a revolver chambered in .38 Special or .357 Magnum may use the factory ammunition listed here and will be exempt from chronograph. The competitor is still subject to calibration challenges. 

(a) Blazer 38 Special +P 158 FMJ (Part #3519, blazer-ammo.com) 
(b) American Eagle 38 Special 158 LRN (Part #AE38B, federalpremium.com)
(c) Fiocchi Pistol & Revolver Line 38 Special 158 LRN (Stock #38C, fiocchiusa.com) 
(d) Geco 38 Special 158 LRN (Item #271840050, geco-munition.de) 
(e) Speer Lawman 38 Special +P 158 TMJ (Part #53750, speer-ammo.com) 

5.3.2. A competitor using a revolver chambered in 9mm may use the factory ammunition listed here and will be exempt from chronograph. The competitor is still subject to calibration challenges. 
(a) Blazer 9mm Luger 147 FMJ (Part #3582, blazer-ammo.com) 
(b) Federal Syntech Action Pistol 9mm Luger 150 TSJ (Part #AE9SJAP1, federalpremium.com) (c) Federal Syntech PCC 9mm Luger 130 FN (Part #AE9SJPC1, federalpremium.com) 
(d) American Eagle Handgun 9mm Luger 147 FMJ (Part #AE9FP, federalpremium.com) 
(e) Speer Lawman Clean-Fire 9mm Luger 147 TMJ (Part #53826, speer-ammo.com)
 

 

http://icore.org/pdf/ICORE_Rule_Book_01_Jan_2020.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3d9h6Ugo_gfnAk-azyT_zQNfUfve-_yiYlNi3RJqmVZR3sAGJI-5tU6Sc

Edited February 5, 2020 by alecmc

[Carmoney]

Sounds like good news to me, Alec.  

[AzShooter]

Partition  the Board to test the ammo.  They may says it's a GO.  It appears that the Power Factor is only 104 so it may not pass the test.

 

[alecmc]

13 hours ago, AzShooter said:

Partition  the Board to test the ammo.  They may says it's a GO.  It appears that the Power Factor is only 104 so it may not pass the test.

 

 

Unlikely to happen, we've already gone through and and picked a variety of readily available ammunition that would exceed or be close, and tested it in a few different guns / barrel lengths. The criteria for testing had to have some promising data on paper, The Remington ammo like you said only meets 104 PF per published specs, we wouldn't bother testing it. 

 

Going out and purchasing every single type of ammo, brand, weight difference, and testing it in a variety of guns,  etc is costly and time consuming for our volunteer staff. 

 

- Alec 

ICORE BOD