Using or wearing more than one gun at a time

[broadside72]

I shoot RFPO but want to also shoot PROD. I know in USPSA there is a rule about using or wearing more than one firearm at a time, but in the case of Steel Challenge I would be using:

1) using one (RFPO from a bag) while only wearing the other (PROD in holster)
2) using and wearing one (PROD from holster) while never touching the other (RFPO in a bag somewhere)

 

I can't find any rule in the SCSA rules dealing with this issue. 

 

Do I need to bag my production gun while I am shooting my RFPO gun then?

[ZackJones]

You can had production gun in holster while shooting RFPO but if production gun should accidentally fall out during a string you would be DQ’d for dropped gun.

[broadside72]

1 minute ago, ZackJones said:

You can had production gun in holster while shooting RFPO but if production gun should accidentally fall out during a string you would be DQ’d for dropped gun.

 

Thanks. I use a bungee anyway since I RO and want to avoid accidental drops if I bump something

[zzt]

I see no reason to carry a gun in a holster all day for an SCSA match.  I shoot two guns at every match and I bag both.

[Hammer002]

17 hours ago, broadside72 said:

 

Thanks. I use a bungee anyway since I RO and want to avoid accidental drops if I bump something

 

Still a DQ. In either situation, as a competitor or as RO. No way a gun swinging and spinning on a bungee doesn’t sweep yourself and or everyone else.  As a competitor, during a course of fire a dropped gun is a dropped gun, in this case either of them as Zack pointed out. The rule doesn’t specify hitting the ground. A bungee catching it only makes it more dangerous and does not avoid the DQ.  Sorry.  On another note, the bungee is just unsafe. In all cases, if a gun is dropped, LET IT GO!  The chances of it going bang when it hits he ground are near zero. The chances are far greater to cause a bang trying to catch it, or in this case retrieve from a dangling bungee.  Again, even in an unloaded situation, it’s gonna sweep you and nearly everyone else.  Either way, I wouldn’t allow it at my match.  Have the two guns if you feel you must.  I’ve seen it several times.  It’s just not the best decision.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Hammer002

[zzt]

I think he bungees the gun into the holster so it cannot come out unless he removes the bungee.  Personally, I'd change holsters.  My buddies who shoot Production and CO all have Kydex holsters with two tensioning screws.  They all screw them down tight until it it their turn to shoot.

[Hammer002]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

I think he bungees the gun into the holster so it cannot come out unless he removes the bungee.  Personally, I'd change holsters.  My buddies who shoot Production and CO all have Kydex holsters with two tensioning screws.  They all screw them down tight until it it their turn to shoot.

 

Ahhh. I get it. I was envisioning the tactical thing that hooked to the bottom. Meh. Silliness. 

[broadside72]

Yes an extra bit of protection with a bungee to help keep gun in holster. I only use it to keep it from getting knocked out when I sit in a chair with arms or from falling out when I RO in USPSA in case I hook it on something since my focus is the shooter.

Almost no one that plays somewhat seriously in that sport shoots with a real retention holster so this is the next best thing IMO.

But this is all off topic.

Thank for the info on two guns. Hopefully the RM\MD agrees.

[rowdyb]

Do it all the time shooting pcc and prod.

[Bunsen]

always do it shooting my limited gun and a 22. 

[ADulay]

7 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Do it all the time shooting pcc and prod.

Ditto.

 

AD

[UpYoursPal]

One this topic: Most of my local matches will have people stay on the firing line to switch between centerfire and rimfire.  How do you handle this if you want to shoot two different centerfire divisions with different guns?  Say, if I wanted to shoot my open gun, but also shoot my production gun with a standard holster?  It seems like rule 5.6.2 would cover this, and the MD would have to make the call.  However, could you conceivable go to the line with two holsters and two bags with two guns and just switch between COFs?

[mchapman]

Short answer is NO. You are not supposed to shoot two guns of similar type one after another. You shouldn't shoot two center fires one after another, but you can do a center fire and a rimfire after each other, and you can shoot rimfire pistol and then a rimfire rifle one after another, but a lot of places discourage this and would prefer a break between people.

As per rule book, L 1 it is up to MD. L2 and up it is not allowed.  5.6.2, and 5.6.3

Edited February 4, 2021 by mchapman

[zzt]

16 hours ago, UpYoursPal said:

However, could you conceivable go to the line with two holsters and two bags with two guns and just switch between COFs?

 

None of the matches I shoot would allow this even though it is legal to shoot two guns back to back in LI.  Standard procedure is to run through all the shooters and then run through all the second gun shooters.  If you are shooting CO and Open, typical procedure would be to bag the first gun you shoot.  Then stow the cased gun, remove your belt and put on the next one.  Shoot, case and repeat on the next stage.

[rowdyb]

On 2/3/2021 at 10:14 AM, zzt said:

None of the matches I shoot

And yet many of the steel challenge matches I've shot more than half the shooters are two gun shooters and most of those locals I've attended prefer it if you can shoot them back to back.

[Nolan]

26 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

And yet many of the steel challenge matches I've shot more than half the shooters are two gun shooters and most of those locals I've attended prefer it if you can shoot them back to back.

 

Ditto here.  It really speeds up the match and all of the local clubs allow it.

 

Nolan

[zzt]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

And yet many of the steel challenge matches I've shot more than half the shooters are two gun shooters and most of those locals I've attended prefer it if you can shoot them back to back.

 

Fine, but not around me.  In LII shoots you must have one shooter in between your guns.  However, every LII match I've shot runs through all shooters first, then sends the second guns up to shoot.  Maybe it is because we have so many two gun shooters.  It is not unusual to be on a ten gun squad and only have five shooters.  Or six or seven man squads all shooting two guns.    It actually speeds thing up because shooter A is not reloading two sets of mags and is available to paint sooner.

 

Maybe we have so many two gun shooters because of the pricing.  At one club the second gun is only $5.  At another, $10.  At the $10 club, the only people shooting one gun almost always only have one gun.  I'll always shoot two guns if allowed.  I'm giving up half a day, so getting to throw twice as much lead down range is a good thing.

Edited February 4, 2021 by zzt

[rowdyb]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

ten gun squad and only have five shoote

In my experience that has never happened. It is 8 to 10 shooters and possibly 16 guns per squad. A 5 shooter, 10 gun squad seems like a luxurious option.

 

My only experience above local steel challenge is national level, and in those cases I saw most people shooting one gun per relay but being in 3 or 4 relays over the match if they were multi gun shooters. In fact everytime I just have shot one gun at a national steel challenge match (Even back when it was at Piru) I'm always mad I didn't sign up for more divisions hahaha.

Edited February 5, 2021 by rowdyb

[zzt]

rowdy, the only LIII matches I've attended mandated one gun.  If you wanted to shoot more than one gun you signed up for morning and afternoon, and multiple days if necessary.  I'll never do that again.  Nor will I sign up for matches that allow two guns, but the squads are so large the 8 stage match runs from 8:30 hammer down to 4:40 PM.

[Thomas H]

On 2/2/2021 at 5:08 PM, UpYoursPal said:

One this topic: Most of my local matches will have people stay on the firing line to switch between centerfire and rimfire.  How do you handle this if you want to shoot two different centerfire divisions with different guns?  Say, if I wanted to shoot my open gun, but also shoot my production gun with a standard holster?  It seems like rule 5.6.2 would cover this, and the MD would have to make the call.  However, could you conceivable go to the line with two holsters and two bags with two guns and just switch between COFs?

 

The rule has been stated (can't shoot two guns in a row at Level II and up, and therefore shouldn't do it at Level I though it is technically legal), so I won't hit that again.

 

At our local matches, everyone shoots their first gun, then people with a second gun cycle back through and shoot their second one, exactly as I've seen it done at a number of different Level II matches.  (That's why we do it that way.)

 

Even though there is therefore a bit of time between everyone's first gun and their second, we tell people that since they need to be there to help paint and so on, they simply aren't going to have time to wander off and switch holsters.  Guns, sure.  (For example, a CO gun and a Prod gun that fits the same holster.  You can literally do that on the line with a gun bag.). Holster switching, on the other hand, means wandering off to the safety area, switching over, wandering back, and basically not helping your squad.  So at our local matches (and it shows up in the matchbooks of most Level II matches I've seen) no holster switching or anything that would take you away from your squad on a regular basis.

 

So:  At our locals, and at the Level II matches I've seen, shooting 2 guns in one squad is normal, having everyone shoot one gun then everyone come back for their second is normal (and required at LII and above), and shooting centerfire/centerfire or centerfire/rimfire as the two guns are both fine as long as you aren't switching holsters between them every time.

 

Apparently, options vary between clubs.  :). But that's the way Level II and up do it, so that's the way we do it at our club.  (Every Level II and III matches I've shot, after the first year it started, allowed two guns per squad.)

 

If you were to just stay on the line and switch guns---switching holsters is likely to take longer than if you came off the line and switched holsters while someone else shot.  If we allowed two-guns-in-a-row at our locals, I'd still tell anyone switching holsters that 1) don't do it, but 2) if the local group decided to allow it, I'd tell you to head to the safety area and switch while someone else shot so we didn't have to wait for it.

 

 

[zzt]

We have several shooters who shoot two guns and require different holsters for each.  They all do it the same way.  Shoot one gun, case it, and stow it.  Reload your mags, then go help paint.  Switch belts before it is your turn to shoot again, bring gun in case and recase after HDH.  There is no need to go to a safe table.  One recommendation- if you shoot your second gun first on the next stage (to eliminate one belt change) make sure you tell the scorer what you are shooting before MR.

[apoc4lypse]

Painting between shooters is a luxury we don't usually have in our local L1 matches.  When I shoot two I don't do it back to  back but get one shooter in between.  I mostly do it that way so I can RO for the rest of the shooters in my squad.

[Thomas H]

1 hour ago, apoc4lypse said:

Painting between shooters is a luxury we don't usually have in our local L1 matches.  When I shoot two I don't do it back to  back but get one shooter in between.  I mostly do it that way so I can RO for the rest of the shooters in my squad.

 

Why not?  Paint is cheap.

 

(Note:  I get it that some clubs don't paint.  This isn't a self-righteous question along the lines of "how dare you not paint!", I'm really am curious as to why not.)

[zzt]

Every club I shoot at paints in between shooters.  It's in the rules.  If you don't paint, you are not shooting a SCSA match.

[apoc4lypse]

In one of the matches I shoot, the stages are set up in a single large bay.  So painting between shooters would mean waiting for each squad to finish one shooter then calling a ceasefire.

 

The other match isn't so formal so I suppose it's just to save on paint costs.  Or to keep the match moving quickly.