Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
J_Allen

Single stack missing major PF - load to ten?

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Gary Stevens said:

Ok I've consulted and I was wrong in some of my initial thoughts on this

 

 In Single Stack, only if your power factor ever becomes minor, you are allowed to load a maximum of 10 rounds of ammo in legal magazines.

 

This should help clear things up.

 

Doesn't really make sense, as soon as a competitor declares minor, he should be able to load 10. As Shred said major/minor is a scoring issue, not a division issue.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Doesn't really make sense, as soon as a competitor declares minor, he should be able to load 10. As Shred said major/minor is a scoring issue, not a division issue.  

 

Not sure I understand your comment. Are you saying I'm wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

that is a completely different topic. Like so completely different that I'm not sure you're seriously making the comparison. It's not really about percent, it's about the likelihood of having to do an unplanned standing reload, or almost as bad, having to shoot super slow and cautious on a steel array because you have no makeup shots. That's why people win area matches shooting ss minor, but people don't win area matches shooting limited minor.

 

There have been so many edits, splinters off the OP, and time in this thread, i honestly can't remember what i was talking about in this particular instance. With the edits, it is hard to know for sure.  It probably had to do with you speaking in absolutes and the fact that there are not any absolutes, just generally so's in USPSA, but it all boils down to if a gun is division legal, then is should be allowed as a replacement, and if you have a 40 that is capable of major/minor and don't make major, you should be able load 10, at least there is nothing in the rules forbidding it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gary Stevens said:

 

Not sure I understand your comment. Are you saying I'm wrong?

Basically if you have claimed major then load too many rounds, you should be bumped to minor, not open. Not positive if you are saying different though.  Shred's post a a few pages back make it more clear.  Take a look at it.  

 

Loading 9 or 10 in ss doesn't actually break any Division rules, as there are scoring rules in place for that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you claim major, and have not been bumped to minor, and load more than 8 in your mag you will be moved to open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Basically if you have claimed major then load too many rounds, you should be bumped to minor, not open.

Loading 9 or 10 in ss doesn't actually break any Division rules, as there are scoring rules in place for that


Loading 9 or 10 when claiming major is no different than loading 11 in production. It is a rule violation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, OdinIII said:

 


Loading 9 or 10 when claiming major is no different than loading 11 in production. It is a rule violation.

 

 

That is what i thought, but i was wrong too.  Did you read Shred's post?  I am guessing not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RJH said:

 

That is what i thought, but i was wrong too.  Did you read Shred's post?  I am guessing not

 

Are we talking IPSC or USPSA?  For USPSA, see Gary's post above. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
That is what i thought, but i was wrong too.  Did you read Shred's post?  I am guessing not


I don’t think it works that way. When you declare that you are shooting major then you are limited to 8 rounds. If you load 9 then you violated the division rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, OdinIII said:

 


I don’t think it works that way. When you declare that you are shooting major then you are limited to 8 rounds. If you load 9 then you violated the division rules.

 

And the penalty is you're now scored minor

Edited by RJH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, RJH said:

And the penalty is you're now scored minor

 

No the penalty is a move to open 6.2.5.1

 

If your in Production and you load 11 on an unloaded start your moved to Open. If you load 11 in your mag after the start signal in Production your moved to Open.

 

If you claim Major in SS and you load more than 8 rounds in the mag your moved to Open.

Edited by Gary Stevens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Gary Stevens said:

 

No the penalty is a move to open 6.2.5.1

 

If your in Production and you load 10 on an unloaded start your moved to Open. If you load 11 in your mag in Production your moved to Open.

 

If you claim Major in SS and you load more than 8 rounds in the mag your moved to Open.

Gary, do you mean 11 on an unloaded start? You can have 10 in your mag on an unloaded start... And more than 11 (in your first mag, unless you are using a Barney mag) ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Gary, do you mean 11 on an unloaded start? You can have 10 in your mag on an unloaded start... And more than 11 (in your first mag, unless you are using a Barney mag) ?

Yes, I'm sorry. Been back and forth on this I'm half lost.

 

Thanks, I'll edit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, what happens if you've declared minor, have been loading 10 rounds and then chrono major?  Bump to open because you've been loading 10 rounds?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist......Just kidding!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ming the Merciless said:

So, what happens if you've declared minor, have been loading 10 rounds and then chrono major?  Bump to open because you've been loading 10 rounds?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist......Just kidding!

 

Glad I looked on down 👀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please, people! You're messing with the mind of a Super Senior! Everyday life is hard enough without tossing in all these rules challenges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gary Stevens said:

 

No the penalty is a move to open 6.2.5.1

 

If your in Production and you load 11 on an unloaded start your moved to Open. If you load 11 in your mag after the start signal in Production your moved to Open.

 

If you claim Major in SS and you load more than 8 rounds in the mag your moved to Open.

 

On 7/18/2019 at 9:15 PM, shred said:

In IPSC, having 9 in a mag after the start signal when you are shooting Classic at Major PF gets you bumped to Classic at Minor PF, same as if you shoot 7 from a declared Major Revo, you go to Minor Revo.

 

The call is based on the new setup still being compliant for the same Division, as compared to other modifications and mag-count loads that are not same-division compliant.

 

The language of USPSA rule 6.2.5.1 would support this if anyone wanted to try it.

 

 

Major/Minor's not a division.

 

 

Actually, I agree with shred here. I understand he's talking ipsc and USPSA, but 6.2.5 .1, is division based, major/minor is scoring based, there is no major/minor division, just major/minor scoring and that's where the difference lies. Loading 11 in production is not the same is loading 10 in single stack. You can never load 11 in production after the start beep under any circumstance, however you can load 10 after the start beep in single stack,  but you will be scored minor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None are so blind as those who will not see.

 

I'm done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Gary Stevens said:

None are so blind as those who will not see.

 

I'm done.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed sighted man is king.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RJH said:

. You can never load 11 in production after the start beep under any circumstance, however you can load 10 after the start beep in single stack,  but you will be scored minor. 

 

not if you declared major (and haven't yet been bumped to minor by chrono). You will be moved to open, at least according to the most experienced rules guy in this thread. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

not if you declared major (and haven't yet been bumped to minor by chrono). You will be moved to open, at least according to the most experienced rules guy in this thread. 

 

I understand what they are saying, I just don't think the rule book supports that as written.  There is no SS major division, only SS division.   In SS you can load 8 major/10 minor, so if you screw up and load more than 8 (like in a 40) then you actually haven't broken division rules, because unlike production with 11, there is a place in SS for 9-10 rounds, but you should be scored minor.  6.2.5.1  specifically talks about breaking division rules, putting 9-10 in a SS gun does NOT break any division rules, but it does change the scoring.

 

Obviously all my round counts are talking about in the mag after the buzzer.  

 

Also i would have agreed with the bump to open until i looked a little harder at the rules.  

 

Have a good one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RJH said:

 

I understand what they are saying, I just don't think the rule book supports that as written.  There is no SS major division, only SS division.   In SS you can load 8 major/10 minor, so if you screw up and load more than 8 (like in a 40) then you actually haven't broken division rules, because unlike production with 11, there is a place in SS for 9-10 rounds, but you should be scored minor.  6.2.5.1  specifically talks about breaking division rules, putting 9-10 in a SS gun does NOT break any division rules, but it does change the scoring.

 

Obviously all my round counts are talking about in the mag after the buzzer.  

 

Also i would have agreed with the bump to open until i looked a little harder at the rules.  

 

Have a good one

I could actually support this as it would then be consistent both ways, 

 

mostly it would be an excuse to get yet another Single Stack gun (or two) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RJH said:

 

I understand what they are saying, I just don't think the rule book supports that as written.  There is no SS major division, only SS division.   In SS you can load 8 major/10 minor, so if you screw up and load more than 8 (like in a 40) then you actually haven't broken division rules, because unlike production with 11, there is a place in SS for 9-10 rounds, but you should be scored minor.  6.2.5.1  specifically talks about breaking division rules, putting 9-10 in a SS gun does NOT break any division rules, but it does change the scoring.

 

not an unreasonable argument, but I think it also makes sense to say that division rules allow you to load 10 if you declare minor, or 8 if you declare major. If you load more than that, you have broken division rules and go to open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
not an unreasonable argument, but I think it also makes sense to say that division rules allow you to load 10 if you declare minor, or 8 if you declare major. If you load more than that, you have broken division rules and go to open.
And this is why I dont agree with the load 10 after going minor at chrono. If you declare major you have declared you will shoot no more than 8 in a mag, I dont see how chrono should change that.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...