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geraldskip

STI Staccato P for Police

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20 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

Here is the FDE one on my tac rig.  The model number I gave you is for a black one.

ALScommander.JPG

No tac light? Looks good though!

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And I understand what you guys are saying and I guess I’m trying to make that decision myself. 

 

Right now I shoot USPSA Limited with my 2011 and enjoy it and do well. I shoot it way more than my duty gun. My duty gun is a glock gen 5 34 FS with a RMR on it. I’ve actually been debating abandoning my 2011 and just going Carry Optics from now on. 

 

We are looking at possibly adopting the Stacatto P as another option for duty guns and I just don’t know if the fight is worth it. Our agency issues M&Ps but allows a variety of personally owned weapons.  

 

I know I shoot my 2011 better than my glock. No arguing that. But is the extra weight and cost worth it? Honestly I’m not even worried about the cost, but more so the weight issue. I have no doubt I could make a Stacatto P reliable, but I just don’t know if the juice is worth the squeeze I guess. 

 

Thinking out loud is all. 

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2 hours ago, Bruce said:

I carry a pistol for protection of my family and myself.  The expense and weight of that pistol has never entered the equation. 

 

People who carry should carry what is best for them.  I carry what is the best *for me*, and that is and has been a single or double stack 1911 (not an STI).  If a plastic striker fired pistol was more reliable than what I carry, I would carry it.     

 

Good luck with the project, Ranger Trace...and stay safe.

 

   

 

Absolutely agree, but weight is a huge factor for cops. Carrying an extra pound or two on your belt for 12 hours a day gets old. 

 

And honestly, my gen 5 glock 34 FS with Ameriglo sights and a trijicon RMR isn’t too far away from the price STI is asking cops to pay for a Staccato P....

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1 hour ago, geraldskip said:

And I understand what you guys are saying and I guess I’m trying to make that decision myself. 

 

Right now I shoot USPSA Limited with my 2011 and enjoy it and do well. I shoot it way more than my duty gun. My duty gun is a glock gen 5 34 FS with a RMR on it. I’ve actually been debating abandoning my 2011 and just going Carry Optics from now on. 

 

We are looking at possibly adopting the Stacatto P as another option for duty guns and I just don’t know if the fight is worth it. Our agency issues M&Ps but allows a variety of personally owned weapons.  

 

I know I shoot my 2011 better than my glock. No arguing that. But is the extra weight and cost worth it? Honestly I’m not even worried about the cost, but more so the weight issue. I have no doubt I could make a Stacatto P reliable, but I just don’t know if the juice is worth the squeeze I guess. 

 

Thinking out loud is all. 

It's only a few ounces.  I assume you wear a full blown Sam Brown duty belt?  You'd never notice a few ounces.  I'm plain clothes, so my daily wear is a 1.5" pants belt that really digs into your lower back.  After 27 years of doing it, I really can't tell the difference between 28 and 35 ounces.  They all hurt my back!!

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1 hour ago, geraldskip said:

No tac light? Looks good though!

They don't currently make one for the X300......but I'm nagging the s#!t out of them!!

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I carried a personal 1911 for years on patrol and currently own my 2nd STI. My Chief just bought a S/A 9mm 1911 to carry on duty. While I can and will get my STI approved for duty, I doubt I will carry it. Its been fine reliability and accuracy wise but I only have about 1000 rounds on this one. First thing I do with new pistol is 500 rounds, usually 400 practice and 100 duty .  At my previous agency , I was responsible for all maintenance, repair and up keeping on my 1911 which wasn't a huge problem since I had been to the 1911 Armorers course.  My current issue duty gun is a G19 with RMR, comp and X300U. Seeing department issued/approved 1911/2011s in my geographic area is very rare, like unicorn rare. Most agencies can't or  don't want to deal with the associated costs and issues of maintaining a 1911/2011 vs. Glock. Especially if they are having problems with the 1911/2011s that they purchased. Holster issues not with standing.  I saw where Buck stated that USMS SOG as well as some other agencies are getting STI pistols. But from what I saw these were specialty units from larger agencies that can support the platform. I'm not against it. I'd love to try a P with a RMR on it.

Holster wise, be aware that Safariland T series, like Ranger Trace's, have been reported to collapse during training if they get rolled on.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2019 at 4:23 PM, Matt1911 said:

It's funny to me how people say they wouldn't trust an STI for duty due to reliability, but it's the most popular gun in the competition world because of its reliability and accuracy. 

STI’s aren’t the mot popular gun in competition, maybe custom built/tuned 2011’s but not stock STI’s. 

 

There’s a reason why guys spend $4k+ on a custom built 2011, $125-150 on tuned magazines, load or order custom ammo with longer OAL, case gauge all their ammo (atleast for majors), throw new springs in the gun/magazines before majors, tear their mags apart and clean them after every stage, and many other small little things that comp shooters do that the average LEO just doesn’t do or even understand. 

 

There are threads upon threads, of people having issues with their stock STI’s, and quality control issues with their STI pistols or parts. It’s going take some time before the masses consider them a reliable stock pistol. And even at that, you have to consider the biggest issue. The weight and mass of a 2011. The coolness will start to fade the more 12 hour shifts you have to carry that extra weight and that extra mass fitting into an already tight patrol car. 

Edited by jrbet83

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1 hour ago, jrbet83 said:

STI’s aren’t the mot popular gun in competition, maybe custom built/tuned 2011’s but not stock STI’s. 

 

Maybe I'm going to the wrong matches. 

I see dozens of Edges, Eagles and DVC's.

Custom pieces are few and far between. 

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STI always seems to be the most popular, local, area, or major.  I don't own one of them, but have seen many.

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46 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

I'm shocked as the 2018 USPSA Equipment Survey shows STI as the #1 Manufacturer in Open, SS, Limited, L10.

 

https://uspsa.org/magazine/view//2019-00#page=34

 

 

 

And how many are bone stock, running stock mags with stock ammo? We’re talking about LEO firearms in this discussion. Most departments are required to run their firearms in stock configuration; one for liability reasons but also because they don’t have anyone with the ability to truly work them over. That’s why I said pretty clearly “maybe custom or tuned 2011”.

 

I’d never carry a 2011 by choice as my duty gun, mainly because of the weight and bulk. Having said that, I’d trust my custom 6” Limited gun with 1.180 ammo, my clean tuned STI mags with gram followers any day over my current duty weapon (even though it hasn’t given me issues yet). But a bone stock STI, with stock feed lip STI mags, and stock OAL ammo? There’s quite a few other more user friendly, reliable, easier to maintain firearms that I’d rather have. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, geraldskip said:

You guys using the ALS Springfield Operator holsters? Or the new 2011 ones? I haven’t seen one of their new 2011 ones in the wild so I’m a little leery. 

I’ve got a 7ts for a 1911 that works for all my 5” 2011’s 

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On 7/13/2019 at 5:04 AM, pm07 said:

I carried a personal 1911 for years on patrol and currently own my 2nd STI. My Chief just bought a S/A 9mm 1911 to carry on duty. While I can and will get my STI approved for duty, I doubt I will carry it. Its been fine reliability and accuracy wise but I only have about 1000 rounds on this one. First thing I do with new pistol is 500 rounds, usually 400 practice and 100 duty .  At my previous agency , I was responsible for all maintenance, repair and up keeping on my 1911 which wasn't a huge problem since I had been to the 1911 Armorers course.  My current issue duty gun is a G19 with RMR, comp and X300U. Seeing department issued/approved 1911/2011s in my geographic area is very rare, like unicorn rare. Most agencies can't or  don't want to deal with the associated costs and issues of maintaining a 1911/2011 vs. Glock. Especially if they are having problems with the 1911/2011s that they purchased. Holster issues not with standing.  I saw where Buck stated that USMS SOG as well as some other agencies are getting STI pistols. But from what I saw these were specialty units from larger agencies that can support the platform. I'm not against it. I'd love to try a P with a RMR on it.

Holster wise, be aware that Safariland T series, like Ranger Trace's, have been reported to collapse during training if they get rolled on.

These holsters are certainly not as tough as Safariland's hardshell material, but if I'm ever found to be rolling on mine, the pistol will still be in it.  And since I've not rolled on my holster in 27+years....I doubt it's gonna happen in my last few!!  LOL.

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11 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

These holsters are certainly not as tough as Safariland's hardshell material, but if I'm ever found to be rolling on mine, the pistol will still be in it.  And since I've not rolled on my holster in 27+years....I doubt it's gonna happen in my last few!!  LOL.

 

I saw the documentary "lone wolf mcquade" and he was rolling around while practicing with his revolver, is that no longer required training in the Rangers?  🙂

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Two years ago i went to an STI Tactical 4.0 .40, I’d been carry a Glock 35 since 2005. After 27 years on the job my shooting began to worsen. Since transitioning to the STI I’m back shooting like my rookie days. In the two years of shooting the STI have had no failures and i shoot monthly. The only problem was once the safety popped off. I’d like to purchase the Staccato-P for retirement in September. All of my other carry guns are Glocks: 22, 23, and 43. 

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5 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

These holsters are certainly not as tough as Safariland's hardshell material, but if I'm ever found to be rolling on mine, the pistol will still be in it.  And since I've not rolled on my holster in 27+years....I doubt it's gonna happen in my last few!!  LOL.

 

There are a lot of courses out there now that incorporate working around cars and shooting from various prone positions. VCQB with William Petty being the most well known. I believe Aaron Cowan has also had issues but I’m not 100% sure on that.  

 

Those type of courses have found the 7TS Holsters squish often. Petty posts up dead holsters ALOT. 

 

Not the biggest deal, but just something to be aware of. 

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13 hours ago, geraldskip said:

 

There are a lot of courses out there now that incorporate working around cars and shooting from various prone positions. VCQB with William Petty being the most well known. I believe Aaron Cowan has also had issues but I’m not 100% sure on that.  

 

Those type of courses have found the 7TS Holsters squish often. Petty posts up dead holsters ALOT. 

 

Not the biggest deal, but just something to be aware of. 

It is good to know.  Digging a little deeper into my memory,  I do recall some training with various positions on the ground, but they were all prior to this model Safariland holster.  

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I've seen a lot on Insta about LAPD Swat from STI. My question is this, Does the Department pay for the guns? I seem to have a hard time believing that your run of the mill officer will fork over their personal money for a 2011 when they can buy a glock for 400 bucks. From my experience most cops aren't shooters or gun guys. Now I could see if the Dept gives the option and you wanna spend your own money, ya maybe a 2011 is for you. But still I would rather lean towards to glock than a 2011. 

 

You can see in STIs new marketing that it would appears lots of Mil/Vets are employees and they are pushing for Mil/Leo stuff. Like discontinuing the 1911s, cops dont carry those so why sell them. 
 

I will say this about that, I clean my competition STIs religiously or they start to not work well. Ive also never rolled around in the dirt/mud/sand with them. I guess a 4k gun I dont want to get dirty, the glock I dont care about. Morale of the story, If I clean my duty STI every 2 weeks whether it got shot or not, I guess it'd be a functioning reliable gun. If STI put out a torture video and I guess I'll be convinced. 

Just my experience, not a LEO. Just an STI enthusiast. Also FWIW, when I buy a STI, barrel slide and frame stay, everything else gets replaced, right out of the factory.  After my DVC Classic blew up on my twice as a out of the box factory gun. 

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9 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

Just my experience, not a LEO. Just an STI enthusiast. Also FWIW, when I buy a STI, barrel slide and frame stay, everything else gets replaced, right out of the factory.  After my DVC Classic blew up on my twice as a out of the box factory gun. 

 

Twice????

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45 minutes ago, geraldskip said:

 

Twice????

Guns blowing up are generally an ammo issue, not a gun issue.  

 

I'm pretty certain those LAPD guys are paying for those STIs just like we are.  But who knows....

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

I've seen a lot on Insta about LAPD Swat from STI. My question is this, Does the Department pay for the guns? I seem to have a hard time believing that your run of the mill officer will fork over their personal money for a 2011 when they can buy a glock for 400 bucks. From my experience most cops aren't shooters or gun guys. Now I could see if the Dept gives the option and you wanna spend your own money, ya maybe a 2011 is for you. But still I would rather lean towards to glock than a 2011. 

 

You can see in STIs new marketing that it would appears lots of Mil/Vets are employees and they are pushing for Mil/Leo stuff. Like discontinuing the 1911s, cops dont carry those so why sell them. 

Most of the time when you see a dept that authorizes a 1911/2011 platform then the officer is paying for it.

 

The guys that don't mind spending that on a 2011 are the gun guys of the dept. Your "run of the mill" officer won't buy a 2011, much less a new gun for duty use.

 

You also have to remember, not all police agencies issue weapons. I work for a large agency and we have an authorized list of weapons to pick from, the officer purchases the weapon that best suits him/her. I much prefer that over being told I have to carry a weapon that might or might not like.

Edited by andre3k

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4 hours ago, andre3k said:

Most of the time when you see a dept that authorizes a 1911/2011 platform then the officer is paying for it.

 

The guys that don't mind spending that on a 2011 are the gun guys of the dept. Your "run of the mill" officer won't buy a 2011, much less a new gun for duty use.

 

You also have to remember, not all police agencies issue weapons. I work for a large agency and we have an authorized list of weapons to pick from, the officer purchases the weapon that best suits him/her. I much prefer that over being told I have to carry a weapon that might or might not like.

I think we have the best of both worlds.  We have a Department issued pistol/rifles, but my Division allows us to qualify with 2 in-lieu-of pistols and 2 in-addition-to pistols.

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23 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

I've seen a lot on Insta about LAPD Swat from STI. My question is this, Does the Department pay for the guns? I seem to have a hard time believing that your run of the mill officer will fork over their personal money for a 2011 when they can buy a glock for 400 bucks. From my experience most cops aren't shooters or gun guys. Now I could see if the Dept gives the option and you wanna spend your own money, ya maybe a 2011 is for you. But still I would rather lean towards to glock than a 2011. 

 

 

All officers may not be gun guys, but you can be sure the LAPD SWAT guys are.  LAPD has gone from a very restrictive authorized gun policy to what appears to be a pretty open one.  Back in the day on LAPD and probably to present day one of the big emphases was defending against gun snatches and gun retention.  I can see how carrying a 1911 or 2011 works in that respect because the average knuckle head is not going to have the presence of mind to swipe off the safety.  If I was still a cop, I would be carrying a 1911 or 2011 if I they were authorized.  

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4 hours ago, Greenrunner said:

 

All officers may not be gun guys, but you can be sure the LAPD SWAT guys are.  LAPD has gone from a very restrictive authorized gun policy to what appears to be a pretty open one.  Back in the day on LAPD and probably to present day one of the big emphases was defending against gun snatches and gun retention.  I can see how carrying a 1911 or 2011 works in that respect because the average knuckle head is not going to have the presence of mind to swipe off the safety.  If I was still a cop, I would be carrying a 1911 or 2011 if I they were authorized.  

That same argument can be used against the guns for duty use.

 

I've seen officers trying to qualify fail to turn their safety off. I've also seen very good shooters (that actually compete) fail to disengage their grip safety.

 

Sure it's nice to say the suspect would be unable to figure out how the gun works, but what if the cop can't either? 

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7 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

  We have a Department issued pistol/rifles, but my Division allows us to qualify with 2 in-lieu-of pistols and 2 in-addition-to pistols.

 

My department kinda does the same. We issue the S&W M&P in any caliber the officer wants, but he can purchase his own p320, M&P (2.0 included), glock, FN, Colt series 80 1911, and a couple other ones.

 

We just approved RMR's and I am basically debating which is a better gun, a nice G34 MOS with RMR or a STI Staccato P. 

 

It almost is coming down to Limited Minor vs CO, and honestly I think they are VERY comparable. 

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