Coolfire CO2 dry fire ?

[dgrdvm]

So, I recently saw and briefly played with a Coolfire CO2 dry fire set up. Basically a way to get your gun to recoil to let you learn to track the sights at home with out the muss and fuss of holes in the walls, angry or wounded neighbors, or visits from the police.

Any one using one ?  Does it help ?

I know it is 300 bucks, and that is not the point of this post - what I would like to hear is if anyone has one and does it help.

Thanks

[anonymouscuban]

So, I recently saw and briefly played with a Coolfire CO2 dry fire set up. Basically a way to get your gun to recoil to let you learn to track the sights at home with out the muss and fuss of holes in the walls, angry or wounded neighbors, or visits from the police. Any one using one ?  Does it help ?

I know it is 300 bucks, and that is not the point of this post - what I would like to hear is if anyone has one and does it help.

Thanks

 

I played with it at a Gun Show. It was cool but I didn't see it really being an appreciable improvement on dry fire without the recoil. My question to the guy at the booth was "what does this train me to do that dry fire alone does not?" He didn't have a satisfactory answer.  

 

It won't teach recoil management. Not really. Not better than live fire will.

 

So what does it help train?

 

I'm knew to practical shooting but I've read and studied a lot of training methods and materials. Enough to know that we train repetitive movements in dry fire. Draws, reloads, indexing, transitions. None of this requires recoil.

 

We then use live fire to train recoil management and to keep what we train in dry fire honest with confirmation of shots on target.

 

If you're gonna spend 300 on this, I would instead spend it on an airsoft replica pistol that has a blowback feature. It will do the same but adds the element of live fire analog. I have a CZ replica airsoft setup in a shopping cart for a few months but haven't pulled the trigger on the buy simply because I don't know that it will provide any value beyond daily dry fire and weekly live fire.

 

Again, I'm a total newb so I may be, and most likely am, very wrong. So take my advice for what worth.

 

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

[dgrdvm]

I see your point that it is not better than live fire, and that is likely true. I can not get to a range as often as I like ( basically once a month other than matches) , and if it is a reasonable approximation then its a win. I know Airsoft is neat, but I like the idea of training with the gun I shoot matches with. I've blown 3 Bills on dumber stuff, so I can work with that, but I just want to make sure it won't teach a bad habit, or hurt the gun.

[jackntucson]

PM'd you about my  experience with Cool Fire

 

[anonymouscuban]

PM'd you about my  experience with Cool Fire
 

Mind sharing your experience publicly?

Think it would be beneficial to anyone following this post or if they search for information on the product later.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

[Smithcity]

Define "better or worse" than dryfire or livefire. Coolfire is much more realistic than dryfire. Combined with the LASR system you get a 3rd of the recoil, sight disruption forcing you to find the subsequent sight picture, a resetting trigger, and instant hit feedback for full fledged drills. It is far more expensive than dry, far cheaper than live. As far as training goes, id say coolfire with the lasr system is 85 to 90% as good as live fire, allowes you to practice any time with direct feedback on time and hits. This is something you cannot get with dry fire and par times. Many people build bad habits with dry fire and par times walking way with an unrealistic understanding of their skills. If im going to spend time practicing at home, why not make it as realistic as possible?

 

I use a sirt bolt and lasr system with my pcc and the amount of realistic training i could do with instant hit factor feedback accelerated my acquisition of shooting skills, allowing me to climb the classification ladder quickly. With the success I had with pcc, I got a coolfire for my p320 x5 shooting carry optics. When I compete I use a heavy tungsten grip frame. When I do coolfire training I use a x5 grip module with no weight added. As a result I get more felt recoil from the coolfire system and it more closely simulates live fire.

 

I have no doubt that a "simulated" training system (sirt, coolfire) with the gun you compete with is orders of magnitude better than dryfire. Still not a replacement for live fire, but much more realistic. The training is so similar to live fire, that with all the hit factor drills ive run with the pcc i can predict within 3 or 4 tenths my match classifier hit factor results assuming i dont do anything stupid. I have no doubt ill get there in time with the coolfire system and the x5. Once i pick up a legion my current x5 will become a full time coolfire gun.

 

Im not sure why there are so many disparaging remarks on the forums about the simulated training systems. As a guy who cant get to the range as often as i like because of work, family, and life, im able to easily spend 20min to 30min in the evening if i want, get a quality 400 trigger pulls with instant time and hit placement feedback, without driving anywhere, pasting targets, etc... and the practice is very similar to live fire results.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Smithcity

[jackntucson]

On 7/12/2019 at 1:22 PM, anonymouscuban said:

Mind sharing your experience publicly?

Think it would be beneficial to anyone following this post or if they search for information on the product later.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
 

No Thanks, as per Brian's rules " Hate Rants
Rants involving shooters, firearms, or shooting related manufacturers, such as but not limited to - IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, Colt, Brownell's, Dillon, or Match Staff - are NOT PERMITTED. Brian's Forums is not the place to resolve customer service issues or disputes you may have with a manufacturer, dealer, gunsmith, or individual."
 

Edited July 15, 2019 by jackntucson

[dgrdvm]

Well, I took the plunge ( prior to the majority of the comments here, due a general lack of patience on my part) and I have had 1 training session with the CoolFire.

I will say so far I like the feel, though the recoil impulse changes dramatically as the CO2 in the reservoir depletes. I will say I get 12-15 good, accurate recoils, then it starts to get pretty wimpy. But a quick hit of gas and right back at it. I did not get the laser, actually on purpose, so I try and really just watch the dot and not look to a target for the conformation. This may be a mistake, but time will tell.

It really made a point of how I was unrealistic in some of the dry fire par time drills I was doing. 

Time to get to work !

[anonymouscuban]

Well, I took the plunge ( prior to the majority of the comments here, due a general lack of patience on my part) and I have had 1 training session with the CoolFire.
I will say so far I like the feel, though the recoil impulse changes dramatically as the CO2 in the reservoir depletes. I will say I get 12-15 good, accurate recoils, then it starts to get pretty wimpy. But a quick hit of gas and right back at it. I did not get the laser, actually on purpose, so I try and really just watch the dot and not look to a target for the conformation. This may be a mistake, but time will tell.
It really made a point of how I was unrealistic in some of the dry fire par time drills I was doing. 
Time to get to work !

Cool. Keep us posted as you use it more and determine if its impacting your shooting.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

[dgrdvm]

On 7/24/2019 at 9:05 PM, anonymouscuban said:

Cool. Keep us posted as you use it more and determine if its impacting your shooting.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
 

So far - I like it.

It has held up to daily dry fire, and still getting 12-14 good recoils before getting soft. 

Trying to make the par goals in Ben Stroeger's book got a whole lot harder, and it taught me to actually find "speed mode" for real, with out burn a ton of ammo at the range.

I think I am getting value from it, and I will see how it reflects in my next match. Normally I am slow and accurate so lets see if I am learning anything.

 

After last night, I noticed I am really starting to grip the pistol tighter than non Coolfire dryfire, in a good way. I think I was slacking on the grip, as well as the dot to hit par times. I have noticed my hands are more sore, and forearms are tight after a session,  and that did not happen before

Edited July 26, 2019 by dgrdvm
Addition

[Smithcity]

3 minutes ago, dgrdvm said:

So far - I like it.

It has held up to daily dry fire, and still getting 12-14 good recoils before getting soft. 

Trying to make the par goals in Ben Stroeger's book got a whole lot harder, and it taught me to actually find "speed mode" for real, with out burn a ton of ammo at the range.

I think I am getting value from it, and I will see how it reflects in my next match. Normally I am slow and accurate so lets see if I am learning anything.

Exactly, dry fire with par times is dangerous. I dont trust myself to NOT cheat them. The cool fire paired with LASR system keeps me honest. Glad to hear you are learning with the simulated fire.

[Aforum55]

Aren't these only for Bushing guns? Do those really exist in USPSA anymore besides 1911's. If prob be interested in looking into one of these but I shoot bull barrels. Dry fire to me has its purpose but only for certain aspects such as. Good grip on draw, u loaded starts, sub second first shot (mostly non shooting items) how many times have you live fired and thought you were lined up perfectly and still couldn't hit the target? I can see the pros and cons but I just rather live fire since I have a range 15/20 mins from my house. 

[dgrdvm]

I agree if you have access to the range, time and ammo that live fire is better. I do not have all those available - I work full time so I practice in the evening and the range is not available. The Coolfire is a reasonable tool to help get the idea on tracking the dot on drills, and calling shots and follow up shots honestly. I have found I grip the pistol better now when I dry fire, and the slide movement will really pull you off the second or third shot if you are lazy, or are just trying to beat the beep. 

The drop in barrel and recoil set up are specific to the gum - I have a P320 X5 ( bull barreled) and it just drops in place of the regular set up. 

[dgrdvm]

On 7/24/2019 at 9:05 PM, anonymouscuban said:

Cool. Keep us posted as you use it more and determine if its impacting your shooting.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
 

Finally got to shoot a match yesterday, and I was happy (er ?) with what the gun was doing. I shot a lot more double A, and a lot less A/C or A/D or M, and I was much happier with how I shot the over abundance of head shot only targets. I did not shoot a single NS ( and there were a lot ) and there was a strong hand/weak hand stage that was much easier than before. I feel that the CoolFire is helping me get used to the gun recoiling and controlling it and that means better second shot.

I was faster to the draw and to the transitions and seconds as well. Whether this is due to the CoolFire, or simply to the fact I have been dry firing more is debatable. I do like to dry fire more with the device - it seems more fun, and I pay more attention to what I am doing rather than go through the motions. 

My movement is still hilariously bad, so no help there, and I think the better gun stuff highlighted that the moving in and out of positions, and general aggressiveness of how I motor around a stage is what I need to work on. So now there is that to get after.

The device has held up well, and the one issue I did have was corrected with a very quick return call from the company so that is good so far as well.

 

Hope this is helpful

Edited August 26, 2019 by dgrdvm
spelling

[Racinready300ex]

I'm not sold on the idea yet. They do look neat. You would gain realistic trigger pulls for every shot, and I guess there is some simulated recoil.  The biggest benifit is probably if you think it's cool, or more fun and it motivates you to go train vs being bored and not dry firing with out one. Then it will certainly help a lot.

 

My concerns would be first mentioned above 12-14 good recoils before getting soft. That's like one El prez drill. Same with air soft, you need to fill them up constantly and try to keep everything from freezing up with heavy use. I'd get tired of this.

 

Second would be if the recoil isn't the same is it worth having at all? The timing of the gun will be different from live fire to cool fire. I don't know, maybe.

 

Adding a laser is a okay idea, but I think can lead to bad habits. adding a IR laser is a better idea but add $120 and you'd still need something to track the hits.

 

And last would be the cost, I'd spend it if I thought it would really be a big help. But I think I'd be better off spending that money on a class and continuing the old fashion way of DF. Perhaps if I used one for a while I'd change my mind, but I don't think I want to spend $400 to find out.

[dgrdvm]

All good points Racinready300ex.

 

The CO2 reloads off a big paintball can on the fill station in about 2 sec - not a big deal. 

 

The recoil seems close enough that I think it helps. 

 

The cost - yeah it is not too cheap, but again, I have dumped that on classes that were of dubious help, or a case or 2 of ammo that I turned into smoke and noise with no appreciable improvement to my shooting so it is all personal choice.

[Racinready300ex]

Are there any problems with it freezing up from refilling and emptying over and over rapidly? I played with a airsoft gun for a little while years ago (it was fun) I found you needed several mags and a heating pad to try to keep them warm enough to use. the would freeze up and loose performance from the rapidly draining and refilling. For example I might do bill drills in DF, over the span of 3 to 5 min doing 1.5 second bill drills you can put in a lot of reps. I'd guess 30 to 40 reps, if I refill every 18 shots that's 10 refills in a 3 min window. Then move on to the next drill and repeat for a total of 20-25 mins or more twice a day.

 

How many days like this could you get out of say a 20 oz paint ball tank.

[anonymouscuban]

2 hours ago, dgrdvm said:

Finally got to shoot a match yesterday, and I was happy (er ?) with what the gun was doing. I shot a lot more double A, and a lot less A/C or A/D or M, and I was much happier with how I shot the over abundance of head shot only targets. I did not shoot a single NS ( and there were a lot ) and there was a song hand/wead hand stage that was much easier than before. I feel that the CoolFire is helping me get used to the gun recoiling and controlling it and that means better second shot.

I was faster to the draw and to the transitions and seconds as well. Whether this is due to the CoolFire, or simply to the fact I have been dry firing more is debatable. I do like to dry fire more with the device - it seems more fun, and I pay more attention to what I am doing rather than go through the motions. 

My movement is still hilariously bad, so no help there, and I think the better gun stuff highlighted that the moving in and out of positions, and general aggressiveness of how I motor around a stage is what I need to work on. So now there is that to get after.

The device has held up well, and the one issue I did have was corrected with a very quick return call from the company so that is good so far as well.

 

Hope this is helpful

 

Thanks for updating us. Funny. I'm in the opposite shape you are. I just had a match yesterday. Where my movement, reloads and other non-shooting stuff has improved tremendously, my shooting fundamentals seem to have declined. I dropped quite a bit of points yesterday. There were a few stages with lots of tuxedos and no shoots and I struggled. Not sure if I just had a bad day or I was just musceling the trigger but man it sucked. 

 

I have the Mantis X which I got for free. Played around a little with it when I first got it. I'm going to try use it it in dry and live fire over the next couple of weeks to see if it helps at all. I'm going to focus on my trigger fundamentals in dry fire for the next couple of weeks because I don't want to have another match like this last one.   

[dgrdvm]

Not sure how if you guys care, but shot an IDPA match this weekend for the first time in a year, simply because I had nothing else to do.

I was pretty fast ( for IDPA, seriously) and seemed more accurate than last time I shot this game.

Put down an EXP level time in CO on the 5X5 with out even trying hard and only 1 sec down. Barely made SS in other classifiers. 

So Cool fire make me practice more and that practice is seeming to be valid and paying off

 

I guess the take home is what ever makes you practice more will likely improve your shooting, and the CoolFire is close enough to real recoil that the practice I have done with it has helped my shooting ( or at least not contributed to any apparent bad habits). I will continue to use it and will be happy to answer questions on it.

 

Now, does any one know about some magic shoes that can get me moving faster ? 

Edited September 10, 2019 by dgrdvm
Addition

[Jcgatus]

 

[dgrdvm]

Update - I have been using the Coolfire fairly regularly and I am still feeling that this is positively effecting my shooting, both USPSA, and maybe more on steel challenge.

 

The unit is holding up pretty well, though it seems to eat striker tips pretty regularly, and they need to be replaced for it to run well. And those little suckers are a bi#%h to get on, and 1 or to have flown off the bench, never to be seen again. 

 

Eric at CoolFire has been very responsive to questions, and offering help when things seemed off. 

 

Looking forward to spring shooting !

[TrackCage]

I found this review to be helpful, although spoiler alert - it convinced me NOT to purchase one.

 

 

[anonymouscuban]

I found this review to be helpful, although spoiler alert - it convinced me NOT to purchase one.
 
 

Have. I watched that a couple months ago and also drove me to the same decision.

As the OP mentioned, thinks works if it motivates you to train. If you don't need to be motivated, then I don't see a lot of benefit beyond normal dry fire.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

[TrackCage]

1 hour ago, anonymouscuban said:

Have. I watched that a couple months ago and also drove me to the same decision.

As the OP mentioned, thinks works if it motivates you to train. If you don't need to be motivated, then I don't see a lot of benefit beyond normal dry fire.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
 

He even said that it's more like live fire than dry fire, in terms of the drills you do with it. That alone was eye opening

[Aforum55]

I need some motivation to practice this season. This tool looks like it will aid in practice and offer a more "real scenario" even though the recoil impulse is between a 22 and 9. Anyone have concerns on how it will effect timing when your slide is moving much faster under live fire? I'd be using this with an open gun so major PF vs 22 recoil will be a major difference. 

 

Has anyone used this in a open gun?