Failure to feed in Glock 34

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Try swapping the extractor from the 19, and testing the 34 extractor in the 19,  especially since the problems only recently started.   Also check the extractor plunger assembly.

Since they’re both 9mm are they the same? Or would they change between a full size and a compact?

Why would the extractor be causing ftf’s? Causing the round to be tilted when going into the chamber or something?


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[HesedTech]

Just stopped in.  This is strange.  

 

Do you polish the feed ramp?

 

If not try that, but it’s probably not the issue.

 

Since you tried shorter now go longer on the OAL.

 

i would also try another bullet brand and profile.  

 

Does factory ammo work 100%

Edited July 3, 2019 by HesedTech

[dee loo]

Interchangeable.  Extractors are the exact same part between the 17, 19, 26, 34.  If the extractor is  too loose or to tight it can also affect feeding, it may release the round too soon or to late.   Also clean out extractor channel and check for burrs or debris.

 

Your ammo looks fine and since the problem is new, and the problem started suddenly, check for gun issues.

[nso123]

I have seen OAL cause finicky feeding before.  I try to run about as long as possible because, for me, it keeps feeding issues under control. That being said, I have had bullet profiles that required me to load pretty short, particularly in 147gr loads. I have experienced similar malfunctions to yours when I went too short. As mentioned above, you may want to try going a bit longer and see if that gets it fixed.

[OptimiStick]

Had a similar issue in the wifes M&P - and it was the load. I was using VV n320 , not TG - but where 3.3 Grains worked fine in all my 9mms, it was wasn't fully cycling her M&P . It looked like FTF and FTE intermittently. Though I don't remember it marking the case like yours is. Anyway, after trying a few other things - upping to 3.4 grains made a drastic improvement, and going to 3.5 fixed the issue completely. 

 

I kinda tried most everything else first - because I assumed if those loads ran fine in all my guns, most of which are full size 1911s....with heavy slides and lots of rail contact, surely it would work in her M&P.  Just goes to show what assumptions are worth.

[Furrly]

I did mention early on that i think his load is under-powered!!

[Yondering]

15 hours ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:

Also, here are some more pictures I took of the failures tonight. 

 

 

I've dealt with this before myself, and can probably save you some time by pointing out a few things that are NOT the problem:

- it's not OAL, especially with that bullet profile. This is a Glock, not a drama queen.

- if you get lock back, it's not a problem of the load being too light, especially if the problem just recently started. If the slide moves back far enough to pick up the round, it should chamber.

- it's not your crimp, or anything to do with fitting a case gauge

 

There are two likely causes - the extractor and the striker. 

 

Striker first - did you recently change strikers? When the failure to feed happens, is the striker tip sticking out of the breech face? (And does the round stop against the tip?) 

I experience this same problem when I accidentally installed a large frame (G21) striker in a 19. The longer striker let the tip stick out of the breech face and caused this same feed issue when racking by hand, although the gun fired and functioned fine otherwise.

 

Extractor - #1 thing to check is that the extractor moves as designed. I don't think your optic mount system can do it, but sometimes with milled slide RMR installations people install a screw that's too long and binds the extractor plunger, causing the same malfunction. Check to make sure the whole extractor plunger/spring/plug assembly are all installed right with no gunk, corrosion, or flaked plating, and that they move freely in the plunger channel. With those parts out, check the extractor movement, and inspect the hook of the extractor for burrs or broken spots with sharp edges. 

 

Is your recoil spring just worn out and too light? Do the vertical check to make sure it goes into battery with the trigger held back. If it passes, that's not the problem either. 

 

If you've eliminated the mags as a potential issue, the only other thing that comes to mind (and I think it's unlikely) is to make sure your magazine catch is holding mags securely and at the right height. Maybe it's worn and the mags sit too low? 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Yondering

[looking4reloadingdeals]

 
I've dealt with this before myself, and can probably save you some time by pointing out a few things that are NOT the problem:
- it's not OAL, especially with that bullet profile. This is a Glock, not a drama queen.
- if you get lock back, it's not a problem of the load being too light, especially if the problem just recently started. If the slide moves back far enough to pick up the round, it should chamber.
- it's not your crimp, or anything to do with fitting a case gauge
 
There are two likely causes - the extractor and the striker. 
 
Striker first - did you recently change strikers? When the failure to feed happens, is the striker tip sticking out of the breech face? (And does the round stop against the tip?) 
I experience this same problem when I accidentally installed a large frame (G21) striker in a 19. The longer striker let the tip stick out of the breech face and caused this same feed issue when racking by hand, although the gun fired and functioned fine otherwise.
 
Extractor - #1 thing to check is that the extractor moves as designed. I don't think your optic mount system can do it, but sometimes with milled slide RMR installations people install a screw that's too long and binds the extractor plunger, causing the same malfunction. Check to make sure the whole extractor plunger/spring/plug assembly are all installed right with no gunk, corrosion, or flaked plating, and that they move freely in the plunger channel. With those parts out, check the extractor movement, and inspect the hook of the extractor for burrs or broken spots with sharp edges. 
 
Is your recoil spring just worn out and too light? Do the vertical check to make sure it goes into battery with the trigger held back. If it passes, that's not the problem either. 
 
If you've eliminated the mags as a potential issue, the only other thing that comes to mind (and I think it's unlikely) is to make sure your magazine catch is holding mags securely and at the right height. Maybe it's worn and the mags sit too low? 

Thanks for this awesome explanation. I haven’t replaced the stricken specifically, but I did replace the spring, I don’t remember when, but honestly probably about when I started seeing these problems. I’ll take that apart and reinstall it and see if that changes anything.

My RMR cut is from Glock and I’m using the correct screws, so I don’t think that anything is interfering, but I will check the operation of the ejector and clean it out.

It is a lighter recoil spring, but it’s the same one Iv been using the whole time, so I didn’t think about it at first. I’m going to try a heavier spring tonight as others have mentioned.

I’m also going to try an ets mag I have laying around too.

Stayed tuned for an update tonight

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Just stopped in.  This is strange.  
 
Do you polish the feed ramp?
 
If not try that, but it’s probably not the issue.
 
Since you tried shorter now go longer on the OAL.
 
i would also try another bullet brand and profile.  
 
Does factory ammo work 100%

I have some more 147 coated bullets coming in Friday that I had good luck with that I will be loading again, so hopefully those will still work for me!


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[mreed911]

 

7 hours ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:

Why would the extractor be causing ftf’s? Causing the round to be tilted when going into the chamber or something?
 

 

When it feeds in, the rim of the case slides "under" the extractor (or the extractor slides "over" the rim) - any debris, burring, or other damage to the tip/channel of the extractor could make it more difficult for the round to go into place, or allow it more vertical movement "up the ramp" than it should with proper grip.

 

Pretty simple test, and you'd probably be able to SEE any damage to the tip.  Not an uncommon thing to have to replace here and there.

[Yondering]

52 minutes ago, mreed911 said:

 

 

When it feeds in, the rim of the case slides "under" the extractor (or the extractor slides "over" the rim) - any debris, burring, or other damage to the tip/channel of the extractor could make it more difficult for the round to go into place, or allow it more vertical movement "up the ramp" than it should with proper grip.

 

 

This. 

The malfunction shown by the OP is cause by something that stops the case from sliding all the way under the extractor. That could be an extractor issue, the striker as I described above, or a lack of magazine pressure pushing the case head upwards. 

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Alright guys... after another 300ish rounds tonight I saw a small amount of improvement, but it was certainly not totally fixed. I tried everything you guys suggested and here are he results:

I shot some factory rounds (50) and didn’t have any problems with them. I will be shooting the other 150 I have to make sure no failures happen with those.

I tried an ETS mag I had laying around, was hard to tell if it helped or not.

Took out the ~13 lb recoil spring and put in the stock one, helped a little bit, put in a 20lb recoil spring and it made a noticeable difference, probably the biggest different of anything I tried.

I switched extractors from the 19 to the 34 and saw no noticeable difference, had failures with both.


The only thing I forgot to do was switch out the 2lb striker spring for a heavier one ( of course).

I tried all of the rounds Iv been testing over the past couple of days and the biggest improvement came from the short rounds I made the other day. When I first tried them they would fail 8/10 times, today was only 2-3/10 times, so a big improvement.

At this point I’m going to give up on these 124 Berry’s for the 34 and try some old 115s and some coated 147s I had good luck with before.

Everyone talking about the striker getting in the way of the rounds me start thinking, could it be this pitting I have on my breech face?

I had some s#!tty Tula primers that we’re splitting and ended up cutting away at my breech face(that I got rid of). My local gun smith said it’s still safe to shoot and I’m waiting to hear back from Glock about it.

Could this be what the rounds are getting caught up on?


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[Yondering]

That pitted breech face is one of the worst I've seen, and could definitely be part of or the whole problem. Hard to say if polishing the pitted area would help, but you could try this - smear some heavy grease all over the breech face and try cycling those rounds by hand. If it feeds easier, that's a good indication it was hanging up there.

 

Can you reproduce the malfunction again? If so, get a picture from the same angle above, showing where the brass is hanging up on the breech face. That'd help a lot in diagnosing the issue. 

[looking4reloadingdeals]

That pitted breech face is one of the worst I've seen, and could definitely be part of or the whole problem. Hard to say if polishing the pitted area would help, but you could try this - smear some heavy grease all over the breech face and try cycling those rounds by hand. If it feeds easier, that's a good indication it was hanging up there.
 
Can you reproduce the malfunction again? If so, get a picture from the same angle above, showing where the brass is hanging up on the breech face. That'd help a lot in diagnosing the issue. 

All I’d have to do is go back to the range with the weaker spring, I didn’t think about this until I got back from the range and read the replies. I may try that tomorrow when I try my factory ammo



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[OptimiStick]

Holy cow...are you shooting acid-filled primers? 

 

2# Striker with 13# recoil doesn't sound right. I think I"m running 13# recoil and 4# or 4.5# striker on my g34. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by OptimiStick

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Holy cow...are you shooting acid-filled primers? 
 
2# Striker with 13# recoil doesn't sound right. I think I"m running 13# recoil and 4# or 4.5# striker on my g34. 

Ya I guess I might as well have been. They were 30-40 year old Tula primers I got dirt cheap at a gun show and I never had any problems so I wasn’t cleaning it all the time and this popped up in about 1-1500 rounds. So it seems like it’s gonna be an expensive lesson to learn. The other bad part is that I found a load that was great for 115gr and have about 1500-2000 rounds loaded with those primers I now have to pull, deprime, and them reload with new primers.... so that’s gonna be a fun adventure. But it’s not worth making my guns worse now that I realize what’s going on to shoot them.

From now on I’m only buying new primers and sticking with quality components. I equate this to being a cheap college student looking for the best deal possible and not totally knowing what to look for in primers.


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[looking4reloadingdeals]

Ya I guess I might as well have been. They were 30-40 year old Tula primers I got dirt cheap at a gun show and I never had any problems so I wasn’t cleaning it all the time and this popped up in about 1-1500 rounds. So it seems like it’s gonna be an expensive lesson to learn. The other bad part is that I found a load that was great for 115gr and have about 1500-2000 rounds loaded with those primers I now have to pull, deprime, and them reload with new primers.... so that’s gonna be a fun adventure. But it’s not worth making my guns worse now that I realize what’s going on to shoot them.

From now on I’m only buying new primers and sticking with quality components. I equate this to being a cheap college student looking for the best deal possible and not totally knowing what to look for in primers.


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Edit: also, I was using a 7lb striker spring with the Tula primers, but haven’t had a problem with light primer strikes using cci SPP and a 2lb striker spring (1 or 2 out of 5-600 rounds) with my pyramid trigger


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[HesedTech]

Combine beat up grooves on used brass with that breech face and I think we have found your issues. 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a pistol with that kind of wear. 

 

Oh, I would not deprime live primers. Just saying it’s not recommended.

[OptimiStick]

Kinda reminds me of some of the damage that was going around from the bad / recalled lots of Winchester primers a few years back. I think those were LRs though. But even those pics weren't as bad as OPs

 

 

[Yondering]

On 7/4/2019 at 1:54 PM, OptimiStick said:

Kinda reminds me of some of the damage that was going around from the bad / recalled lots of Winchester primers a few years back. I think those were LRs though. But even those pics weren't as bad as OPs

 

I had some of those Winchester issues with both LR and LP primers, and pitted the breech face in my 10mm because of them. I stopped using them before they got anywhere near as bad as the OP's gun though. 

[Sandbagger123]

not enough  juice. the re dot and extended barrel add weight.  its the reason factory ammo works fine. i suggest you purchase a chrono. i bet your load is not passing 1000fps out of the g34

[Yondering]

3 hours ago, Sandbagger123 said:

not enough  juice. the re dot and extended barrel add weight.  its the reason factory ammo works fine. i suggest you purchase a chrono. i bet your load is not passing 1000fps out of the g34

 

Not really. It should feed all the way down to the point that the slide won't cycle far enough to eject the previous case. Sounds like his load is ejecting fine, so something else is wrong. Hotter loads may feed correctly with higher slide speed, but that's masking the feeding issue, which is probably caused by the breech face erosion as shown in his last picture. 

[Sandbagger123]

5 hours ago, Yondering said:

 

Not really. It should feed all the way down to the point that the slide won't cycle far enough to eject the previous case. Sounds like his load is ejecting fine, so something else is wrong. Hotter loads may feed correctly with higher slide speed, but that's masking the feeding issue, which is probably caused by the breech face erosion as shown in his last picture. 

 we will just have to agree to disagree.  pump up that load a bit .  maybe 4.0 of TG and watch the issues disappear.   

 

[mreed911]

38 minutes ago, Sandbagger123 said:

 we will just have to agree to disagree.  pump up that load a bit .  maybe 4.0 of TG and watch the issues disappear.   

 

 

That would be wrong.  It would just jam faster/harder with this bullet profile/length and the lack of a smooth breech face.  You do know Glock re-engineered the metal on the slide on the Gen 5 34, right?  And you read that OP is using different springs, so it should have even less resistance?

[tdp88]

I use the same OAL and bullet weight on my current 9mm load and I agree that your powder charge is too low, bump it to at least 3.7 TG and the issues will probably go away.