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Tanders

Order of Finish vs. Random Drawing Prize Tables

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20 hours ago, RJH said:

 

So are you ok with winner take all, or a pro am format?

Absolutely that's life, winners are winners for a reason and the same goes for the losers. Thats the way the whole world worked until the Millennials started crying that they want to be entitled to everything without having to do any work for it. I really don't understand people that see it any other way. Just like Tony the tiger said, if I got 149th out of 150 and won a better prize, or any prize at all I would feel guilty about it. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, louu said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems we are not going to agree.  But just so you know, I am all for Division winners getting something nice.  I see your point, and don't totally disagree with it, but when matches are dependent on the %80-90 of shooters that have no chance of winning to show up so that there  is a match for anyone to shoot, random prizes seem to be a solid idea for drawing some people in.   Maybe match directors do random draws to thank the masses for showing up so that the winners have a place to display their talent.  Anyway have a good one 

Edited by RJH
Too smart assery :-)

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My opinion...

 

Having shot plenty of big matches and run a few too and being, generally, a top 10-20% shooter, I personally prefer an order of finish prize table.

However, I also completely understand why many sponsors prefer the random draw distribution of stuff. Sponsors often get much more mileage out of giving stuff to shooters who aren't winning the matches.

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19 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

Im okay with performance awards, and only to a certain point. Not the same as participation awards. 

Are you perhaps not a very good shooter and you're very bitter about it? Because thats how you're coming across.

Exactly. 

 

This is why I beat my kids and my mom beat me, so we grow up strong and winners lol. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, louu said:

Exactly. 

 

This is why I beat my kids and my mom beat me, so we grow up strong and winners lol. 

 

 

 

You know, the real answer is if you don't think match awards are done correctly,  run your own level two  match.  Do it the way you feel is best and see if it works.  May be the best way ever, or it may flop. Complaining on the internet about the way it is now seems like a millennial thing to do.  Haha

 

Seriously though, i  hope you start a match, and I hope it works for you 👍

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21 minutes ago, wgj3 said:

SNIP 

 

However, I also completely understand why many sponsors prefer the random draw distribution of stuff. Sponsors often get much more mileage out of giving stuff to shooters who aren't winning the matches.

 

Exactly!  Who is buying more "stuff"?  A veteran shooter who has been shooting for decades, and has already decided long ago what their own personal preferences are?  Or does a new shooter buy more, who considers every new gadget and gimmick he or she can find in order to try to gain an advantage?  Not to mention the fact that there are only a few shooters at the top vs. the much larger number of shooters in the middle and bottom...  The real money is in the masses.  Seems that everyone checks out the prize table, and new products get their introduction.  

 

I know that some of the larger matches I have been involved in, sponsors INSISTED on random drawings for their prize table items.  I imagine that is because there is much more return on the table prizes, due to everyone checking them out before the drawing.  

 

Cash prizes were based on order of finish, and rightfully so. 

 

If a manufacturer wants the top shooters to use their product, that is usually discussed privately.  

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It's coming up on page 8 of the thread... How about some input from a small time sponsor?

 

I get asked to sponsor matches a lot.  It's because we make cool stuff people want.  I've also shot a whole lot and am still pretty good at it, so I net win off order-of-finish.

 

That said--

 

I don't care how your match gives my prizes out, but I want it to go to somebody that wants it.  Easiest way to do that is order of finish with a big spread table.  Second easiest is a random-draw table where you pick something of your choice off it in order of your random draw number or a bucket raffle where you can choose what bucket to put your tickets in.  Just hand somebody a bag and say 'here's what you won"?  Meh. 

 

I want my stuff in the hands of people that want it and can tell somebody how cool it is rather than stuff it into a closet or flip it here next week.   At the very least  prizes need to be out and visible so people can think "I want to win that, and maybe if I don't I'll buy one".

 

I prefer order of finish tables because then the winner seems to value the item more than if its random.  Kind of like saving up to buy something when you're a kid, rather than just getting it given to you.

 

There's an elephant in the room that I know is true for many in this business, and probably most if not all--  There is very little tangible value returned to a sponsor for sponsoring USPSA matches.  All the stage banners and facebooking and instrgramming and RO recitations per stage and shout-outs during awards and whatnot have yet to bump the sales needle at all.  "Thank you for sponsoring" e-mails or messages?  A sponsor is doing very well to get one or two from a 350 person match (as an aside, one shooter I can count on to send a thank you note is now sponsored by a major manufacturer, not because he's a great shooter, but because he's a great brand ambassador-- wanna-be-sponsored shooters take note).  If there's no slot in it, it's basically a 100% donation and hope somebody that wins something will buy more or get someone else to buy, neither of which happen with any great frequency, so shooters keep that in mind when grousing about how poor the tables are these days and MDs keep that in mind when you ask for $3000 for a slot, then wonder why nobody is stepping up to that level-- it's a net win for the sponsor to just pay for a slot and slap a couple jerseys on shooters.

 

Giving actual cash is going to dramatically decrease the sponsor pool to those companies that can afford to lay out cash from the advertising budget and hope maybe it helps, rather than those that will give away product or certificates in the hope they lands in someones hands that will use it and tell their friends and maybe get another sale or two.

 

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19 hours ago, Tanders said:

As an aside, you wouldn't happen to be the gentleman with the dogs who was CROing the classifier stage at Area 1, would you?

 

Yes, that is me. I hope you enjoyed the stage, and the match. I like that you said 'gentleman' instead of 'jackass'. that's a good sign.  ;)

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1 hour ago, shred said:

<excellent and informative commetns snipped>

 

There's an elephant in the room that I know is true for many in this business, and probably most if not all--  There is very little tangible value returned to a sponsor for sponsoring USPSA matches.  All the stage banners and facebooking and instrgramming and RO recitations per stage and shout-outs during awards and whatnot have yet to bump the sales needle at all.  "Thank you for sponsoring" e-mails or messages?  A sponsor is doing very well to get one or two from a 350 person match 

 

 

it may not always be obvious. We buy over $200/month in bullets, and my first taste of the ones we use was a prize-table freebie at a match. All other things being equal, I tend to buy from folks that sponsor and/or support matches. Heck, I got 3 of your mag gauges now. Enjoy the next beer on me!

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1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

 

Yes, that is me. I hope you enjoyed the stage, and the match. I like that you said 'gentleman' instead of 'jackass'. that's a good sign.  ;)

It was the best-run major I have ever been to.  Smooth as glass.  No back-ups and all the ROs were great.  Can't even come up with something to complain about if I tried.

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21 minutes ago, Tanders said:

It was the best-run major I have ever been to.  Smooth as glass.  No back-ups and all the ROs were great.  Can't even come up with something to complain about if I tried.

Agreed. The oregon state match (same location, same MD for the last several years) has always been great, but this time Mark Sue and Ryan Goold set a new bar, partly by assembling a truly outstanding group of RO's.  Only thing I can complain about is the freezing-azz cold and wind for the staff match, but at least it saved me running the A/C in the trailer for the pupper-dogs.

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On 7/5/2019 at 7:08 PM, motosapiens said:

paying to other places besides just the winner is not a participation award. Are you calling an olympic bronze or silver medal a 'participation award'. If you are, your argument doesn't make actual sense to humans.

Perfect post. Thread closed. 

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On 7/6/2019 at 2:42 PM, RJH said:

 

 

 

Seriously though, i  hope you start a match, and I hope it works for you 👍

I did and it did so I guess your attempt at calling me a Millennial that complains on the internet didn't work LOL. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, louu said:

I did and it did so I guess your attempt at calling me a Millennial that complains on the internet didn't work LOL. 

 

 

 

So why are you complaining, then? Does your first or second,  or whatever number,  loser trophy you aren't getting mean that much to you?

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