RedlandsShooter Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has personal experience and a recommendation for a good 9mm powder drop funnel/case expander (PTX) for the Hornady LNL powder dropper? I am currently using the Hornady PTX and have it adjusted as far as it can go to expand the case rim but I am looking for just a little more expansion and possibly a little less sticky on down stroke. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I swapped the PTX for a Mr. Bulletfeeder expander/funnel. It is a two step expander. the bottom portion is 'normal' sized and the upper portion is bullet sized. No bell is required, but a minute amount helps the bullet feeder in the next station. Bullets drop in vertically and do not cant when the shell plate rotates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 17 hours ago, zzt said: I swapped the PTX for a Mr. Bulletfeeder expander/funnel. It is a two step expander. the bottom portion is 'normal' sized and the upper portion is bullet sized. No bell is required, but a minute amount helps the bullet feeder in the next station. Bullets drop in vertically and do not cant when the shell plate rotates. If I understand you correctly it sounds like the same principle as the Hornady PTX. I am just looking for a bit more adjustment to flare the case to see if it will help consistency in concentricity when seating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 hours ago, RedlandsShooter said: If I understand you correctly it sounds like the same principle as the Hornady PTX. I am just looking for a bit more adjustment to flare the case to see if it will help consistency in concentricity when seating. It is not the same principal. The PTX requires you flare the case. The MBF does not. With the MBF the bullet is inside the case and vertical. It cannot move when the plate indexes, so the bullet is always seated concentrically. Flare, especially excess, is the enemy of concentricity, because the Hornady seating die does not do a perfect job of righting the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 MBF, hands down, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef15 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 The MBF can flare the case, the PTX appears barely can. The stepped up straight area just before the flare of both is .359. The MBF has a nice polish in it. I have not used the PTX, I suspect it would work fine. From what I have read there is two generations of PTX, the early ones lacked the step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef15 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 MBF left, Hornady from 2018 right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayfk05 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) One of the cases is expanded with the MBF and the other one with the Hornady PTX, both had the bullet fed by the MBF die. In my experience both work equally well and both will keep the bullet from tipping during indexing and keep the bullet mostly straight until seated. It's a 147 grain .356 coated bullet (I think the left one is the Hornady, I think I could use less expansion on the Hornady but it doesn't bother me) Edited June 26, 2019 by xrayfk05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayfk05 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, xrayfk05 said: Edited June 26, 2019 by xrayfk05 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 My PTXs must be the older ones, because none of them have steps. If you are using the Hornady bullet feed system, you do need some flare to get the bullet to drop. With the MBF feed system and expander, you do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, xrayfk05 said: One of the cases is expanded with the MBF and the other one with the Hornady PTX, both had the bullet fed by the MBF die. In my experience both work equally well and both will keep the bullet from tipping during indexing and keep the bullet mostly straight until seated. It's a 147 grain .356 coated bullet (I think the left one is the Hornady, I think I could use less expansion on the Hornady but it doesn't bother me) A picture says a 1000 words! The case on the right looks to be about the best I can do with my PTX adjusted for maximum amount of flare. I am looking for the results the MBF is providing on the left case. Thank you for the photo, off to purchase the MBF powder drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 hours ago, zzt said: It is not the same principal. The PTX requires you flare the case. The MBF does not. With the MBF the bullet is inside the case and vertical. It cannot move when the plate indexes, so the bullet is always seated concentrically. Flare, especially excess, is the enemy of concentricity, because the Hornady seating die does not do a perfect job of righting the bullet. Which seating die are you having good concentricity results with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, zzt said: My PTXs must be the older ones, because none of them have steps. If you are using the Hornady bullet feed system, you do need some flare to get the bullet to drop. With the MBF feed system and expander, you do not. The Hornady Bullet die does require a flare to release the bullet from the internal collet system and the collets do periodically break. Found that out at the most inconvenient time when trying to load the day before a match. Now I always have spare collets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 5 hours ago, RedlandsShooter said: Which seating die are you having good concentricity results with? I am using the Hornady seater, but not crimping. It's the MBF that makes the round go straight down, not the seater. I crimp using a Lee FCD. I gave up on the Hornady bullet feeding system, and bough a whole Mr. Bulletfeeder set. Should have done it sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promtcy Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) Do you have the stop linkage on your case activated powder drop ? That's the thing on the side with an adjustment screw and nut on either end and a spring goes over the top of it. If so, just screw the bottom screw up farther until you get the expansion you want. You have to sort of fiddle with the die height adjustment of the whole unit sometimes so that piston rotates as far as it should. I load coated bullets. although I don't use a bullet feeder, and I have no issues at all. I did polish the tip of the expander and I started lightly lubing cases to reduce the tendency to stick. Here's a link the the manual, what I'm talking about is on page 25. LNL AP Manual Edited June 27, 2019 by promtcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 I adjust the PTX/powder dispenser in the LNL bushing while the shell plate is at the top of its stroke and 9mm brass has fully activated/bottomed out the metering insert while observing the case rim slightly contact the flat portion of the PTX. I know I am getting all the flare possible using this method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looking4reloadingdeals Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I adjust the PTX/powder dispenser in the LNL bushing while the shell plate is at the top of its stroke and 9mm brass has fully activated/bottomed out the metering insert while observing the case rim slightly contact the flat portion of the PTX. I know I am getting all the flare possible using this method.Do you have the travel limiter on the powder drop? It has the two screws on it to limit the travel and gives a better flare as the powder drop isn’t bottoming out on itself. I can upload a picture if you’re not sure what I’m talking aboutSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 No, I am not using the travel limiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyskyhigh Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 No, I am not using the travel limiter.You need it for the expander to work properly.I have a Dillon 550 and 650, but often use a couple of Hornady LNL powder measures for certain cartridges / powders (ie 40 SW and 10MM, along with some 300 BO combos)Adjustment is NOT intuitive but after much trial and error I have it figured out. But without that metal “stop” bar the PTX will not work as intended. I’m on the road, but when I get home I’ll take some pictures and walk you through the adjustment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looking4reloadingdeals Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 13 hours ago, iflyskyhigh said: You need it for the expander to work properly. I have a Dillon 550 and 650, but often use a couple of Hornady LNL powder measures for certain cartridges / powders (ie 40 SW and 10MM, along with some 300 BO combos) Adjustment is NOT intuitive but after much trial and error I have it figured out. But without that metal “stop” bar the PTX will not work as intended. I’m on the road, but when I get home I’ll take some pictures and walk you through the adjustment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk This is correct. I first tried using mine without the travel limiter and it wouldn’t work for me at all. As soon as I started using it my results got drastically better. I would suggest trying the travel limiter before buying anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promtcy Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) There are pictures of it and instructions on how to adjust it in the link I posted to the manual. Edited June 28, 2019 by promtcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, looking4reloadingdeals said: This is correct. I first tried using mine without the travel limiter and it wouldn’t work for me at all. As soon as I started using it my results got drastically better. I would suggest trying the travel limiter before buying anything else A few have suggested that the Limiter will provide more flare, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I found another way to adjust for what I believe is the maximum flare without the use of the Limiter. Here are some pictures showing the results I am getting with the PTX (without the limiter) and the measurements to confirm that I am getting the maximum amount of flare as possible. The photo on the left shows the maximum flare on the PTX at .367, the middle photo shows the OD measurement of a flared 9mm brass at .389, the photo on the right shows the brass wall width at .011. If you multiply the brass wall thickness x 2 = .022 and add the PTX max flare measurement of .367 you come up with .389 OD, the measurement of my flared brass. If someone is obtaining significantly more flare with the PTX using the limiter I would be pleasantly surprised and inclined to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looking4reloadingdeals Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 A few have suggested that the Limiter will provide more flare, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I found another way to adjust for what I believe is the maximum flare without the use of the Limiter. Here are some pictures showing the results I am getting with the PTX (without the limiter) and the measurements to confirm that I am getting the maximum amount of flare as possible. The photo on the left shows the maximum flare on the PTX at .367, the middle photo shows the OD measurement of a flared 9mm brass at .389, the photo on the right shows the brass wall width at .011. If you multiply the brass wall thickness x 2 = .022 and add the PTX max flare measurement of .367 you come up with .389 OD, the measurement of my flared brass. If someone is obtaining significantly more flare with the PTX using the limiter I would be pleasantly surprised and inclined to try it. While you can still get the max flair, it is do much easier and more consistent to use the limiter IMO. Also it reduces a large portion of the sticking when the ram goes down. Personally I would try the limiter before giving up on the PTX, it would be a quick, easy thing to try before spending money on other equipment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promtcy Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) With a flare of .389 that means your internal dimensions are around .367 although that doesn't account for how deep your flare is. Mine runs around .383 external flare and when I measured my PTX it's the same as yours. My cases look exactly like the one on the left that xrayfk05 posted. I'm using all Lee Dies. I'm not having any issue with seating concentricity. So with an internal flare of .367 you should be able to sit any 9mm bullet in there with no problems. It might help to see a bullet sitting in the case to understand why it is you are looking for more flare. Also a picture of the PTX from the side. Maybe yours is different than those of us posting. If it's an issue with the bullet feed system then maybe you do need the MBF. Maybe zzt can enlighten us on why he gave up on the Hornady system. I can tell you with the limiter on the PTX you can almost get the flare to be 90 degrees. There are probably thousands of people using the PTX setup with the limiter on it and it's working for us. Unless it's an issue unique to the bullet feeding system I don't see why it wouldn't work for you as well. Edit to add: The limiter limits the upward travel of the PTX. So the case will travel farther up the PTX than without the limiter. The PTX should have a rounded shoulder as it transitions from the case expander to the body of the PTX. That is what gives you more flare. Edited June 28, 2019 by promtcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedlandsShooter Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 What I am trying to achieve is a little more flare so that the bullet might seat more uniformly. I am experiencing about 5% to 8% case gauge failure, I think this is too high. Assuming the brass was properly prepped/sized, it seems to me the most obvious causes of a bullet not seating uniformly (concentricity) is that the bullet is not sitting perfectly upright (and a little deeper into the brass) prior to entering the seating die. Below in the top photo is a bullet that failed case gauge, the second photo is the reason the bullet failed, a slight bulge at the bottom of the seated bullet, the third photo is the same bullet on the opposite side showing no bulge (apologies for the quality for the photos). Note, the rest of the bullet diameter is within SAAMI specifications, including what looks like a bulge towards the base; it looks pronounced due to the lighting but it measures .391. I am beginning my approach to reducing the case gauge failure rate with introducing more flare and, based on feedback here, a different bullet drop system (Mini Mr. Bullet). Thank you to everyone for your feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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