Squib Problems

[Sarge]

Kind of long drawn out post because it’s hard to explain what I’m lookin for. Last week I had numerous failure to fire and when I racked the slide I got powder everywhere and bullet was just barely stuck in rifling. Some would even fall out if I shook the gun. Not a single person on the squad heard any pops or pffts so I assumed ammo was just too long.

  Fast forward to today and I go to the range to try to figure things out. Took awhile but finally got a barely detectable pop with muffs all the way up and under an awning. Racked slowly and brass came out along with powder. At bottom of case was a blob of powder or maybe ash, that was solid. So immediately start thinking I contaminated the load with case lube or something. Happened 4 more times with same headstamp so I picked all of those out of the ammo. One of the loads was a hang fire as well. Got a weak pfft then bang kind of like a flintlock LOL.

  Came home and pulled the bullets thinking I would find clumped powder but everything looked normal and powder poured right out.

  So I now wonder if the primers are bad or just too weak to light of a compressed load of Autocomp. I’m certain the affected rounds are loaded with S&B small pistol primers. 

  Finally my questions, would a weak or defective primer cause the powder to solidify instead of ignite? Thus leaving the rest unburned?  Has anybody experienced anything similar? Usually on the clock we just rack and try to keep going so we never see the condition of the powder. It took slow motion to finally see something today.

 Load is 9MAJOR. 7.9 WAC 115 JHP at about 1.168.

  I’m thinking crappy primers and compressed load is the problem. I normally run SRP’s but ended up with some different  primers to try. FYI CCI SPP work just fine too.

  Or is there another explanation?

Thanks

 

[Guy Neill]

Yes

 

Primers that have too little priming compound, or are somewhat contaminated may not generate enough heat to ignite the powder, but may melt/fuse some of the powder.

 

Guy

[Sarge]

2 minutes ago, Guy Neill said:

Yes

 

Primers that have too little priming compound, or are somewhat contaminated may not generate enough heat to ignite the powder, but may melt/fuse some of the powder.

 

Guy

I was going to say melted looking in my OP. That’s what the blob looked like

[36873687]

Are the s&b primers spp or srp?

[stick]

The only problem was with S&B SPP?  By chance, did the primers get contaminated?  have you ever used S&B primers before?  In my thinking, I'm beginning to believe that the primers are either defective, contaminated or they cant cant fully ignite the compressed load you are running.

[36873687]

7 hours ago, 36873687 said:

Are the s&b primers spp or srp?

Reason I ask I used s&b spp for 3 yrs in limited an went to open an tried srp s&b an lite strike every 10. To hard I guess for pistol. I’d start right there an I see u was using srp it missed that at first. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

8 hours ago, Sarge said:

 1.  I racked the slide got powder everywhere and bullet was stuck in rifling.

 

 2.  finally got a barely detectable pop. Racked slowly and brass came out along with powder. At bottom of case was a solid blob.   Happened 4 more times with same headstamp 

 

  3.  pulled the bullets thinking I would find clumped powder but everything looked normal and powder poured right out.

   

1.  Iff you've checked The Plunk Test, and the OAL is okay, I presume the primer pushed the bullet out of the case into the rifling ?

 

2.  Did the small pop happen only with one headstamp ?   Which headstamp ?

 

3.  Sounds like the powder was normal until the primer went off ?   Supports theory that the primer was weak and did not fully ignite.

 

Iff they're Plunking okay, sounds like the primer is the culprit   ….    but, why in only one particular headstamp  ????

[rooster]

Prime a few cases and set them off. If they don’t sound normal that’s probably your problem. If they sound ok then I would look at the powder. It seems very strange they had enough power to unseat the bullet but not set it off the powder. How is that even possible?

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, rooster said:

Prime a few cases and set them off. If they don’t sound normal that’s probably your problem. If they sound ok then I would look at the powder. It seems very strange they had enough power to unseat the bullet but not set it off the powder. How is that even possible?

I agree the whole thing has me baffled. I plan to pop a few and compare.

[Ken6PPC]

3 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I agree the whole thing has me baffled. I plan to pop a few and compare.

 

Sounds impossible to me too, but strange things happen sometimes. 

 

If it turns out that your primers fired, but didn't ignite the powder, that is the first I know of in nearly 50 years of reloading!  I certainly have not experienced anything like that myself.   

 

I would try a different brand (or at least a different lot) of primers next to solve the issue, but it would be educational to find out exactly what DID happen...  

[perttime]

Any chance of wet cases or blocked flash holes, from cleaning?

Is there anything different about the flash holes on the ones that didn't go off?

What happens if powder granules get pushed into the flash hole?

[OPENB]

I had the exact issue this spring. Traced it back to loading some cases that I had wet tumbled but not dried completely combined with some Federal SP Magnum  primers that had been submerged in a basement flood. Thought if I let them dry out they’d be ok, but I think some of the priming compound washed out. I used a cam lock puller & took apart 2000 rounds. Found a bunch with clumped powder that obviously still had water in them when loaded. Dry cases & fresh primers, problem solved. 

[ChuckS]

this may help:

 

[Sarge]

4 hours ago, ChuckS said:

this may help:

 

Hmmm one thing jumped out at me. I did run them all through a hammer Bullet puller. I wonder if the S&B were more susceptible to coming apart?

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Hmmm one thing jumped out at me. I did run them all through a hammer Bullet puller. I wonder if the S&B were more susceptible to coming apart?

I doubt there is so much difference in materials that any of them could be susceptible...

[radny97]

The notion that primers can’t partially ignite is a myth. A light primer strike CAN cause partial ignition of a primer. To test this you can take a S&W revolver that has a leaf spring which can be adjusted by a tension screw near the bottom of the grip and loosen the screw by an eighth of a turn, shoot six rounds, another eighth of a turn, six more rounds, etc., until you start getting light strikes. When you reach the margin where you barely start getting light strikes, you will find that about one in ten primers will partially ignite, thereby causing the exact problem you have described. Melted but not ignited powder, squibs with powder, etc.

I have done this with Winchester primers and it is real.

Also, I have found S&B primers to be about the hardest brand out there in SPP. I would guess that you happened upon that narrow little spot where primers occasionally only partially ignite.

The other possible explanation is that you wet tumble and your brass wasn’t fully dry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sarge]

So I went outside and fired some primers only. My Federal small rifle shot flame the farthest out of the barrel and comp. CCI small pistol was next with fire out the front and comp. The S&B barely put some flame out of the comp but virtually nothing out the front. Also much quieter than the others.

  

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: 7.9 grains of Autocomp is a compressed load? Sounds like primers are bad to me. Thanks, Eric

[Sarge]

4 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: 7.9 grains of Autocomp is a compressed load? Sounds like primers are bad to me. Thanks, Eric

I pulled the bullets with a collet puller and the powder is pressed flat. So I’m guessing that qualifies as compressed. A few loads I measured oal on had grown to over 1.17 from 1.167.

[Steve RA]

Try the same load with rifle primers, if they work then you know for sure it was the small pistol primers.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I looked up my old Auto Comp loads for 115's and I was using only 7.4 grains to give me 170PF. I use Winchester small rifle primers, Montana gold 115 JHP and a OAL of 1.170". I still think it's a primer problem. Thanks, Eric

[Dazhi]

Bad primers. 

 

I have loaded close to 60,000 WSP, but the most recent 10K were giving me so many headaches.  There were at least 10 in the past 10K just dead primers.  I hit them with hammer and nail and they won't do anything!  

 

I have switched to CCI with 0 problems for about 6 months so frar, but you never know when you will get a bad batch.  I trusted WSP for a long time and now I will never buy WSP again. 

[RedlandsShooter]

7 hours ago, Dazhi said:

  I hit them with hammer and nail and they won't do anything!  

 

 

LOL , what were you going to do if something DID happen, besides soil your shorts and the inevitable run to the ER.

[Sarge]

12 hours ago, RedlandsShooter said:

LOL , what were you going to do if something DID happen, besides soil your shorts and the inevitable run to the ER.

I must admit I was pretty surprised how loud they were. I went out on my deck and fired one and immediately realized they were way too loud for the suburbs. Went into the garage and fired the rest. I can’t imagine holding a nail on one and hammering on it?

[echotango]

3 hours ago, Sarge said:

I must admit I was pretty surprised how loud they were. I went out on my deck and fired one and immediately realized they were way too loud for the suburbs. Went into the garage and fired the rest. I can’t imagine holding a nail on one and hammering on it?

Press against a thick towel and they are not bad.