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shawdow 2, now a 2011


chetc
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i am currently shooting a new Shadow 2, i want to go to the next level of performance handguns, been reading about the 2011 type pistols. just for mainly having fun at the range and maybe a few steel challenge shoots. what are common popular 2011 pistols available over the counter, not a custom, brands, models suggestions

 

chet

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8 hours ago, chetc said:

i am currently shooting a new Shadow 2, i want to go to the next level of performance handguns, been reading about the 2011 type pistols. just for mainly having fun at the range and maybe a few steel challenge shoots. what are common popular 2011 pistols available over the counter, not a custom, brands, models suggestions

 

Shadow 2 and 2011 are two very different designs, for different markets.  Shadow 2 is 9mm DA/DA primarily designed to compete in 'production' type divisions.  Whereas the 2011s are SA only and built primarily for divisions requiring large capacity 9mm and .40 mags. 

 

I realize this is an over-simplification of the two pistols as there are many variants in between, such as carry option S2s and 9mm 2011s.  However with this in mind, if you're interested in range plinking only, get which ever pistol suits your needs.  As 2011s are rather specialized, 'entry level' is a bit of a misnomer, as a basic 2011 will likely cost 50% more (new) than a S2.

 

SPS (Italian) and STI (USA) are two manufacturer's that come to mind when considering entry level 2011s.

Edited by muncie21
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Chetc,

 

I would recommend you get the Single Action Only kit for your Shadow 2 if you are wanting to take it to the "next level". If this is for 3 gun, the S2 with a SAO kit is absolutely great and more than enough for what you need in that sport. Great gun and very cheap (compared to a 2011).

What division/sport are you wanting to shoot?

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1 hour ago, geraldskip said:

Chetc,

 

I would recommend you get the Single Action Only kit for your Shadow 2 if you are wanting to take it to the "next level". If this is for 3 gun, the S2 with a SAO kit is absolutely great and more than enough for what you need in that sport. Great gun and very cheap (compared to a 2011).

What division/sport are you wanting to shoot?

hi Gerald

 i appreciate your reply, i am currently going to try uspsa steel challenge with the da/sa shadow 2, rather than convert it to a single action, would the cz TSO be any more accurate. which is a single action only. i also have a CZ 75B SA which shoots ok, not at the shadow level.

 

chet

Edited by chetc
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20 minutes ago, chetc said:

hi Gerald

 i appreciate your reply, i am currently going to try uspsa steel challenge with the da/sa shadow 2, rather than convert it to a single action, would the cz TSO be any more accurate. which is a single action only. i also have a CZ 75B SA which shoots ok, not at the shadow level.

 

chet

The TSO is a great gun, but if you already have a shadow, it would not be worth the upgrade. A SAO shadow 2 is a fantastic all around gun, if you want a hi cap 9mm.

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22 hours ago, chetc said:

hi Gerald

 i appreciate your reply, i am currently going to try uspsa steel challenge with the da/sa shadow 2, rather than convert it to a single action, would the cz TSO be any more accurate. which is a single action only. i also have a CZ 75B SA which shoots ok, not at the shadow level.

 

chet

Most of the competitions represented here on BEnos are broken down by division. The CZ TS(O)/2011 and Shadow 2 are guns for different divisions and compete on different playing fields so the comparisons aren't exactly fair.

The S2 is arguably one of the best Production division guns out there. The TS(O) is decent/competitive but objectively not the preferred choice for Limited. Production and Limited are scored differently in both Steel Challenge and USPSA. When you say you want to go to the next level of performance, what are your performance metrics and constraints?

Here's an abbreviated table of Steel Challenge peak times that will help you compare. The TS(O)/2011 and S2 are held to different standards.

Abbrev.	SC-101	SC-102	SC-103	SC-104	SC-105	SC-106	SC-107	SC-108

LTD	13.0	10.0	10.0	14.0	11.0	13.0	13.0	10.0

PROD	13.5	10.5	10.5	14.5	11.5	13.5	13.5	10.5

RFPI	11.0	9.5	8.5	13.0	10.0	12.0	11.5	9.0

SS	13.5	10.5	10.5	14.5	11.5	13.5	13.5	10.5

The S2 will probably be more reliable than your budget 2011 platform. At least my S2 eats everything, even case gauge rejects, while my STI 1911 is more selective. I've owned a custom shop CZ TS, and found it's SAO performance not much different than an tuned Shadow's SA performance. I don't think I could tell the difference between a custom shop S2 and custom shop TS under time pressure if both were the same caliber.  I've rarely shot 2011s but my 1911s all wear DS Perman grips and I still occasionally struggle to activate the grip safety. I shoot the CZs about 10% better on a given stage, but that's probably all related to time behind the gun.

If you're going to shoot at an IDPA club your 2011 will need a bushing barrel, e.g. STI Eagle. I'm not sure if the S2 is light enough for IDPA. If you're shooting with a USPSA affiliated club then a 9mm 2011 is a disadvantage and the S2 about top-of-the-line, but again in different Divisions.

Ultimately you'll shoot better with which ever inspires you to practice more. Practice will make more difference than the gun. If it takes an "upgrade" to a 2011 to inspire practice then the transition will be worth it.

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8 minutes ago, belus said:

 The TS(O) is decent/competitive but objectively not the preferred choice for Limited.

 Dern Bob, ranking in the top 5 of the limited gun manufacture's at Nationals doesn't put CZ as a 'preferred' choice?  Seems that th CZ design pistol is #2, (2019 USPSA survey results link) behind 2011 design pistols.

 

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12 hours ago, belus said:

Most of the competitions represented here on BEnos are broken down by division. The CZ TS(O)/2011 and Shadow 2 are guns for different divisions and compete on different playing fields so the comparisons aren't exactly fair.

The S2 is arguably one of the best Production division guns out there. The TS(O) is decent/competitive but objectively not the preferred choice for Limited. Production and Limited are scored differently in both Steel Challenge and USPSA. When you say you want to go to the next level of performance, what are your performance metrics and constraints?

Here's an abbreviated table of Steel Challenge peak times that will help you compare. The TS(O)/2011 and S2 are held to different standards.


Abbrev.	SC-101	SC-102	SC-103	SC-104	SC-105	SC-106	SC-107	SC-108

LTD	13.0	10.0	10.0	14.0	11.0	13.0	13.0	10.0

PROD	13.5	10.5	10.5	14.5	11.5	13.5	13.5	10.5

RFPI	11.0	9.5	8.5	13.0	10.0	12.0	11.5	9.0

SS	13.5	10.5	10.5	14.5	11.5	13.5	13.5	10.5

The S2 will probably be more reliable than your budget 2011 platform. At least my S2 eats everything, even case gauge rejects, while my STI 1911 is more selective. I've owned a custom shop CZ TS, and found it's SAO performance not much different than an tuned Shadow's SA performance. I don't think I could tell the difference between a custom shop S2 and custom shop TS under time pressure if both were the same caliber.  I've rarely shot 2011s but my 1911s all wear DS Perman grips and I still occasionally struggle to activate the grip safety. I shoot the CZs about 10% better on a given stage, but that's probably all related to time behind the gun.

If you're going to shoot at an IDPA club your 2011 will need a bushing barrel, e.g. STI Eagle. I'm not sure if the S2 is light enough for IDPA. If you're shooting with a USPSA affiliated club then a 9mm 2011 is a disadvantage and the S2 about top-of-the-line, but again in different Divisions.

Ultimately you'll shoot better with which ever inspires you to practice more. Practice will make more difference than the gun. If it takes an "upgrade" to a 2011 to inspire practice then the transition will be worth it.

...

 

 normally i practice more with the shadow 2, and i do agree it is one fine gun, i am liking it the more i shoot it, off the rest shooting paper it is almost as accurate as my Canik TP9SFX, but off hand shooting the shadow 2 is preferred

Edited by chetc
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On 6/24/2019 at 8:36 AM, chetc said:

i am currently shooting a new Shadow 2, i want to go to the next level of performance handguns, been reading about the 2011 type pistols. just for mainly having fun at the range and maybe a few steel challenge shoots. what are common popular 2011 pistols available over the counter, not a custom, brands, models suggestions

 

chet

 

What exactly do you mean by go to the next level of performance? this is a serious question, because in most shooting games and the action games in particular the gun makes very little difference.  If you are talking Bulls Eye type shooting  and you are reasonably skilled a "better" gun may improve your scores, but if you are talking USPSA or Speed Steel type matches a "better" gun may just make you the same level shooter in a different division, from a competition standpoint the old adage that its the Indian not the Arrow is still true. 

 

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