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jbultman

40 Major ‘soft’ loads w/2011

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Posted (edited)

Thinking about changing powders up for my limited guns (Primary: Brazo’s, Back-up: Edge). I know mid-season really isn’t the best time to do this but I’m running out of powder and I’ve recently started loading longer (moved from 1.180 to 1.200) because recently I needed my back-up in a match the Edge seems to like it the longer the better, while the Brazo’s will eat pretty much anything I throw at it.

Anyway. Currently I’m loading Titegroup with 4.8gr @1.180 with a 180gr BBI hitting 171 pf. (Standard 5” barrel)

Yes, Titegroup works fine and there’s really no need to change it other than I recently shot some buddies limited ammo and it got me wondering how soft could I get my 40s to shoot major, is there a better powder. What if....

 

After doing some research these are the powders I’ve started considering. Thoughts? Loads you would share? Any others you would suggest?

 

-N320

-N310

-e3

-Clays (already have 4# as that’s my 40 minor load for steel)

-Red Dot

-WST

 

Thanks

J

Edited by jbultman

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Fastest powders with heaviest bullets are the recipes that we generally perceive to have lowest felt recoil...

 

So, you can go to heavier projectiles, 185gr, 200gr, etc.

You can also look at other fast powders like Solo 1000, Ramshot Comp, etc.

 

Caveat - heavy for bullets with fast for caliber powders can spell kaboom if not managed carefully. Your longer OAL's will help to some degree...

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Sport Pistol if you can find it. wont smoke with coated like TG, wont temp fluctuate like WST, and cheaper than VV's 

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Posted (edited)

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Edited by bowenbuilt

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My major load was 3.7gr e3 under a 180 coated.  172PF from a 5.1" barrel.  I'm experimenting now with Sport Pistol.

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5 hours ago, zzt said:

My major load was 3.7gr e3 under a 180 coated.  172PF from a 5.1" barrel.  I'm experimenting now with Sport Pistol.

 

Whats your thought on sport pistol this far?

How does, say Titegroup compare to these, e3 and sport pistol?

 

 

is there anything that shoot soft like clays but doesn’t have the issues it does?

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"soft" is basically a function of burn rate,, fast powders will be softer when loaded to same power factor... Problem is pressure. Get too fast you generate too much of a pressure spike to reach  X velocity.... why clays and major power factor can cause some Kabooms, if you arnt loading long.
Slower powders create lower peaks but for longer time,,, so can make same velocity at lower peak pressure.
Average pressure in the barrel moves bullets. PEAK pressures stress guns.
Another issue, best bang for buck these days are the various coated bullets,,, powders in the fast TG range tend to run hot and generate smoke and foul barrels.. although if that is an actual match issue, depends on your rig... If I can run 400 rounds without a hiccup, dont really care how dirty it is.
Powder makers are catching up with bullet makers and coming out with powders made for the coated bullets. Sport Pistol is one of these. A bit slower, cooler and better suited for coated. I looked hard at 244 which is in the 231 burn rate area but its low volume gave me pause... BE86 is kinda slow compared to many,, but dang it has shot good in everything I have tried it in..
Be nice if I could do basically one powder for much of my shooting.. BE 86 is pretty close.

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24 minutes ago, jbultman said:

 

 

Whats your thought on sport pistol this far?

How does, say Titegroup compare to these, e3 and sport pistol?

 

 

is there anything that shoot soft like clays but doesn’t have the issues it does?

 

I like Sport Pistol so far, but it really takes 1000 rounds before you can form a definite opinion.  Titegroup sucks.  It burns hot and dirty.  It smokes up a storm, melts FO rods and poly coating.  e3 is just like Clays, except it exhibits no flaky spikeness near the top, and it has no temperature sensitivity.  So no kabooms at major.

 

With e3 you are back on target super fast.  As you go slower in burn rate, the slide moves more slowly.  With some powders it seems forever waiting for the sights to come back.  I'm just guessing at the moment, but I think 165s and Sport Pistol may be a match made in heaven.

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pretty interesting. I ran a 6" bull barreled STI, with TG under jacketed or WST under hardcast moly coated preciscions.
Never got the TG smoke thing till I shot a mover on a rail into sunlight at Area 8 on a hot, no wind extremely humid day... Was like shooting a cap and ball gun.  switched to WST for coated.
Found same thing with clays,, gets spikey at higher end.. SD's would go all over the place and really wasnt that accurate in my 40's,, Although at the time I was loading short for a Browning Hipower. 
Far as slide speed. I ended up going with WST and a 170 gr Precision... It just felt better.  Seemed the 180's just went kathunk, kathunk,,, like the slide was slow,, 170's just worked for me better in the 6"... for 5" I prefered 180's...
Right now I just set up the 6" STI to run 200's over BE86  at around 200 pf for pins...  My box o parts caspian 45 pin gun is taking its sweet time.

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Went from titegroup to VV N320. N320 is certainly cooler than titegroup, which as some stated, melts FO rods. Minimal smoke with coated bullets, very temperature stable, and recoil feels softer. Only drawback s the cost.

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N320 with 200's (or even 220's if your gun can fit them).  N320 produces slightly, but measurably, less recoil than even similar burn-rate powders like Titegroup for the same power factor.  Gas ejecta velocity is an overlooked factor in recoil.  N320, as a single-base, no-nitro powder, produces lower gas velocity than high-nitro powders such as Titegroup, and thus produce slightly less recoil (and less "pop" from the muzzle).

 

Sport Pistol is reputed to behave similarly, but I have yet to try it or seen it objectively measured.  

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5.25 gr of n320 under 180gr precision delta rnfp at 1.18oal.  Made 172 of consistently out of my 5" 2011

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13 minutes ago, Mike21STI said:

5.25 gr of n320 under 180gr precision delta rnfp at 1.18oal.  Made 172 of consistently out of my 5" 2011

 

Just about as good as it gets. 

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6 hours ago, Mike21STI said:

5.25 gr of n320 under 180gr precision delta rnfp at 1.18oal.  Made 172 of consistently out of my 5" 2011

 

I’ve shot 200gr with N320 and it’s beautiful. Only issue is $$$. 

 

On 6/23/2019 at 3:56 PM, zzt said:

 

I like Sport Pistol so far, but it really takes 1000 rounds before you can form a definite opinion.  Titegroup sucks.  It burns hot and dirty.  It smokes up a storm, melts FO rods and poly coating.  e3 is just like Clays, except it exhibits no flaky spikeness near the top, and it has no temperature sensitivity.  So no kabooms at major.

 

With e3 you are back on target super fast.  As you go slower in burn rate, the slide moves more slowly.  With some powders it seems forever waiting for the sights to come back.  I'm just guessing at the moment, but I think 165s and Sport Pistol may be a match made in heaven.

What what’s the downside to e3? Why switch to sport pistol?

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I really like 200gr blue over 4.3 gr n320 @1.18-1.185. Makes 172 out of my Schuemann  barrel.I do the same load with 4.3 WST as my practice ammo to cut costs and eat up a surplus of powder.

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8 hours ago, Novagunner said:

I really like 200gr blue over 4.3 gr n320 @1.18-1.185. Makes 172 out of my Schuemann  barrel.I do the same load with 4.3 WST as my practice ammo to cut costs and eat up a surplus of powder.

 

What’s the difference in feel between N320 and WST?

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12 hours ago, jbultman said:

What what’s the downside to e3? Why switch to sport pistol?

 

I'm experimenting with it for 9mm minor Open loads for Steel Challenge.  I need more gas than e3 provides, and less than a lot of the slower powders provide.  For 40 and 45 I'm sticking with e3, although I will try SP for 40 minor just to see the recoil differences.

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1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

I'm experimenting with it for 9mm minor Open loads for Steel Challenge.  I need more gas than e3 provides, and less than a lot of the slower powders provide.  For 40 and 45 I'm sticking with e3, although I will try SP for 40 minor just to see the recoil differences.

 For limited 40 major which one is better e3 or wst? 

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2 minutes ago, jbultman said:

 For limited 40 major which one is better e3 or wst? 

 

I prefer e3 for 180 and 165gr bullets.  If you want to use 135 or 155 at major, you'll need a slower powder.  WST is a great powder, but it is not as consistent as e3 in 40, or 45 for that matter.

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1 minute ago, zzt said:

 

I prefer e3 for 180 and 165gr bullets.  If you want to use 135 or 155 at major, you'll need a slower powder.  WST is a great powder, but it is not as consistent as e3 in 40, or 45 for that matter.

 

What do you like more about in the e3? Along with the temperature and more consistent is e3 softer and more reliable? 

 

What about powder for 200s?

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1 minute ago, jbultman said:

 

What do you like more about in the e3? Along with the temperature and more consistent is e3 softer and more reliable? 

 

What about powder for 200s?

 

e3 is softer and more consistent.  SDs are lower with e3.  I tried 200s one time and felt I could take a nap between firing and return to battery.  I gave the rest of the 200s to a friend who used them for practice.

 

For most of my Limited shooting I used 180s.  Toward the end I switched to 165s, because the sights came back quicker.  I tried 155s, but my gun didn't like them at major.  It loves them at minor.  Go figure.

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5 hours ago, jbultman said:

 

What’s the difference in feel between N320 and WST?

 

I have alternated rounds in a mag and couldn’t really tell the difference. This was in 70-80 degree weather. I added that as I haven’t tested temperature sensitivity on either load but it has been pretty solid making pf.

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3 hours ago, Novagunner said:

 

I have alternated rounds in a mag and couldn’t really tell the difference. This was in 70-80 degree weather. I added that as I haven’t tested temperature sensitivity on either load but it has been pretty solid making pf.

What do you shoot then? N320 or wst?

whats your load for them?

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49 minutes ago, jbultman said:

What do you shoot then? N320 or wst?

whats your load for them?

 

I posted it above. I shoot n320 for matches and practice with WST (generally). N320 meters a bit better so I get a bit more consistent loads.

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I'm using recipe I got from the guy who built my gun - 4.8gn N310 under 180 FMJ from Montana Gold and 1.200 OAL. Soft shooting, consistent, clean, averages 171 PF. 

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