Cerakote Multiple Color/Layers Advice Needed

[Hawk21]

I have been cerakoting as a hobby for over four years now and have learned some hard lessons along the way.  Took a huge step forward when i sprung for the Iwata spray gun with respect to proper thickness allowing me to confidently coat more than just ARs and Glocks moving into tighter tolerance applications.

 

However, the one thing I haven't mastered that I need some advice on is stacking multiple colors.  Without dropping 2k on the applicator class and taking a trip to OR i was hoping some members might lend some tips and tricks.

 

I have followed all the guidelines of baking the intermediate layers at 180 for 15 min but adhesion between the various colors has been hit or miss each time.  Here is my last attempt, yes i should have cut the graphics smaller and used much more of them to make it look like a halfway decent camo pattern.

 

Any advice would be welcomed.

 

 

[WhiteDingo]

Define "hit or miss", please. What's occurring? Are you getting peeling off of the base surface, or lifting the newly applied color when removing stencils?

[Hawk21]

Base coat is rock solid but the edges of the second coat are flaking off once stencils are removed.

 

I am flashing between first and second color as described in the training manual but getting the flaking 50% of the time probably.

 

 

[WhiteDingo]

Have you checked your oven temp? Hardener ratio correct? Hardener is still good?

 

I've only ever seen flaking like that if the base was cured too long; is the rest of the later adhered well, or can you pick it off?

[Hawk21]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:33 PM, WhiteDingo said:

Have you checked your oven temp? Hardener ratio correct? Hardener is still good?

 

I've only ever seen flaking like that if the base was cured too long; is the rest of the later adhered well, or can you pick it off?

 

Oven temp should be spot on I use (3) 40” electric smokers in order to run different materials at different temps.

 

Hardner was fine and ratio was about 20:1

 

The flaking is only the top coat peeling up.  

 

I have tried pulling the base coat out the oven sooner than the 15 min cure in an effort get better adhesion between the layers but almost any earlier than 15min and the decals pull the base coating off so that’s what I’m looking for advice on what that magic window is for others.

 

 

[azpoolguy]

2 hours ago, Hawk21 said:

 

Oven temp should be spot on I use (3) 40” electric smokers in order to run different materials at different temps.

 

Hardner was fine and ratio was about 20:1

 

The flaking is only the top coat peeling up.  

 

I have tried pulling the base coat out the oven sooner than the 15 min cure in an effort get better adhesion between the layers but almost any earlier than 15min and the decals pull the base coating off so that’s what I’m looking for advice on what that magic window is for others.

 

 

Are you checking your surface temp with an inferred thermometer or relying on the oven setting?

[Hawk21]

59 minutes ago, azpoolguy said:

Are you checking your surface temp with an inferred thermometer or relying on the oven setting?

 

 No.....but I have one never thought to use it, what surface temp on the base coat would I be looking for before applying the top coat?

[azpoolguy]

12 hours ago, Hawk21 said:

 

 No.....but I have one never thought to use it, what surface temp on the base coat would I be looking for before applying the top coat?

I use an electric oven for Cerakote and kydex. The surface temp of the substrate will go much higher then the set temp of the oven as the elements cycle on and off to maintain the temp. Check your surface with an inferred thermometer. You may notice the surface much hotter then you intend before spraying your second color. 

[WhiteDingo]

Especially on a smoker where the item is probably much closer to the element. We had to adjust the element output (on an industrial powder coat oven) so that it wasn't overheating; I think it ended up at like 25% of total output so they're running almost constantly, but not cycling up so hot and causing temp inconsistencies.

Didn't think of that, but I bet it's causing surface temps to be too high

Edited July 1, 2019 by WhiteDingo

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

Surface temps, and ratios. Ive found a much better adherence to multiple coats when spraying with an 18:1 ratio.
To ensure this is exact, I use a digital scale with the 3m PPS system. Works great. and instead of having to waste tons of acetone cleaning stuff and trying to measure it in a graduated cylinder (and having inaccuracies and waste due to transference)...I just measure it straight in the 3M pps inserts on the scale. So tare it. Ensure its shaken up. Pour your cerakote. And then pour in your hardner to 18:1. And spray it.
I have found that some colors are a little more sensitive to masking and partial cures. But to ensure its at the correct temp you have to use an infrared thermometer.

One thing is allow parts to cool before you spray additional passes.

And peel any masking off, before fully curing.

[Tee-Rex]

So is your material supposed to be at 180 when you pull it out of the oven for the first layer? What temp should it be at when you apply the next layer? if you run triple layers are you just repeating the same time and temp as for the base layer?

[IPSCLUVERRR]

I have found that my cerakote chips when doing camo when the base coat is cured too long. I found 11 min for me at 180(What the gauge reads) is the sweet spot for my setup.