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i loaded up a few 120gr tc 9mm bullets, with 3 different powders and off to the range, 90%of them keyhole sideways into the target at 10 or 25yds, in 4 different 9mm semi's, so now i have to pull the rest of them, any ideas the cause. all were loaded to 1.040

 

chet

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Overcrimped is my guess.

Use a kinetic bullet puller to see what the bullet looks like.

Also, how much bell are you using?

Is there any shavings while the bullet is being seated?

Have you slugged your barrel?



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hello himurax13

 

Overcrimped is my guess. i will check that, but i have not bothered that crimp setting in yrs, other bullets no issues

no shavings, did not slug barrel, 4 9mm pistols all keyholed. gonna pull the rest of the bullets and let ya know

 

thanks

chet

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Is the barrel leaded up?  My APX started to keyhole a few after it was fouled pretty bad.  CZs just got sloppy.  This is .356 and .357 bullets.  

Coated bullets are not tolerant of less than a well thought out process.  And thats in addition to the right dia. for your gun.  I just loaded up 200 125g Brazos sized .358 in an attempt to cure my leading problems.  To do this with positively no swaging of that bullet down, I use an NOE expander with .358/.362 dia.  The larger dia allows perfect alignment of the bullets unlike a bell, and the die is adjusted for about .030" depth of this dia.  Barely any crimp.  Loaded ten dummies, measured all.  Cycled all through each of my guns five times.  Measured again, no setback.  Pulled and measured all bullets, no swage.  See what happens tomorrow at the range.  

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Over crimp and or used the Lee FCD to “fix” things with an oversized coated bullet. 

 

I’ve also seen over crimped plated bullets key hole. 

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It’s not bullet problem, but more of a  reloader issue.  Measure, test, and repeat until you figure out the issue.

 

”you haven’t changed anything in years” except for the projectile, which changes everything...

 

be patient and test things, everyone here is guessing based on experience.

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It’s not bullet problem, but more of a  reloader issue.  Measure, test, and repeat until you figure out the issue.

 

”you haven’t changed anything in years” except for the projectile, which changes everything...

 

be patient and test things, everyone here is guessing based on experience.

It can be if you buy previously loaded plated bullets for 3 cents a piece, lol.

 

The funny part is that yhe keyholing did little to affect range or accuracy.

 

I have used the Lee FCD to fix some loads that wouldnt pass the Hundo guage because I didn't want to pull the bullet. Keyholing seems to be random from that.

 

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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Are you shooting at a paper or cardboard target? Unsupported paper will look like the bullet is tumbling.

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Posted (edited)

 

10 hours ago, himurax13 said:

The funny part is that yhe keyholing did little to affect range or accuracy.

 

12" groups at 25 yards? Yep still on paper!  👍

Edited by HesedTech

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Are you shooting at a paper or cardboard target? Unsupported paper will look like the bullet is tumbling.
USPSA targets at varying distances. Seems to break the A zone perf quite often, lol.

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1 hour ago, himurax13 said:

USPSA targets at varying distances. Seems to break the A zone perf quite often, lol.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
 

“Breaking” perfs is not a thing. 

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I loaded up a fairly large batch of bullets that keyholes once, when I started casting my own.  If memory serves me correct I believe the cause was undersized bullets due to running everything too hot while casting like my hair was on fire.

 

I took a lot of crap from from the guys I shoot with but honestly they seemed to fly straight and they caught a number of perfect for me as well.  I called them line cutters.

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49 minutes ago, Mushki25 said:

I loaded up a fairly large batch of bullets that keyholes once, when I started casting my own.  If memory serves me correct I believe the cause was undersized bullets due to running everything too hot while casting like my hair was on fire.

 

I took a lot of crap from from the guys I shoot with but honestly they seemed to fly straight and they caught a number of perfect for me as well.  I called them line cutters.

 

Better than a Charlie or Delta, LOL.

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On 6/8/2019 at 4:28 AM, himurax13 said:

It can be if you buy previously loaded plated bullets for 3 cents a piece, lol.

 

 

That points to the answer right there - your bullets are probably undersized, which is a common cause of keyholing. 

 

Excessive crimp is a possibility too; with soft bullets (plated, swaged, or soft cast bullets) excessive crimp can squeeze the bullet down as it passes.

 

If you still have some of that ammo that caused keyholes - pull a couple bullets and measure their diameter. You may find they are smaller than the bore; they should be the same size or up to a few thousandths larger than the bore. 

 

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1 minute ago, Yondering said:

 

That points to the answer right there - your bullets are probably undersized, which is a common cause of keyholing. 

 

Excessive crimp is a possibility too; with soft bullets (plated, swaged, or soft cast bullets) excessive crimp can squeeze the bullet down as it passes.

 

If you still have some of that ammo that caused keyholes - pull a couple bullets and measure their diameter. You may find they are smaller than the bore; they should be the same size or up to a few thousandths larger than the bore. 

 

Those plated bullets were over crimped when they were loaded previously. There were visible creases. I loaded them deeper than the creases and most of the rounds worked fine but there was quite a bit of random keyholing, LOL.

 

So the takeaway here is not to buy pulled plated bullets.

 

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Posted (edited)

The point I'm making is that the crease itself is not the problem; undersized bullets are the problem. Plated bullets are soft enough that just being loaded once before and pulled (even if they had not been crimped) may have sized them down too much, depending on the loading process they went through before. 

 

I wouldn't buy pulled plated bullets either, but my hope is that understanding "why" will help you identify the real problem. 

Edited by Yondering

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On 6/8/2019 at 7:24 AM, Novagunner said:

What is your load data? 

They were Penn 120gr tcbb lead, 4.3 wsf

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What pistol are you shooting them through? My glock 35  will not shoot certain lots of berry bullets

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canik tp9sfx and and some keyholing with my shadow 2

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The point I'm making is that the crease itself is not the problem; undersized bullets are the problem. Plated bullets are soft enough that just being loaded once before and pulled (even if they had not been crimped) may have sized them down too much, depending on the loading process they went through before. 
 
I wouldn't buy pulled plated bullets either, but my hope is that understanding "why" will help you identify the real problem. 
I agree that undersized bullets are the problem.

If any plated bullets are over crimped, which is basically anything more than removing the bell, that will probably occur.

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I had some tumbling with Penn 115 SWCs but I think I was pushing them too fast. My Penn 120 FP are some of the most accurate in my CZs. I use 4.0-4.2 WSF with those.

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3 hours ago, himurax13 said:

I agree that undersized bullets are the problem.

If any plated bullets are over crimped, which is basically anything more than removing the bell, that will probably occur.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
 

Gotcha, I agree. Thanks for the clarification. 

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