chetc Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 i loaded up a few 120gr tc 9mm bullets, with 3 different powders and off to the range, 90%of them keyhole sideways into the target at 10 or 25yds, in 4 different 9mm semi's, so now i have to pull the rest of them, any ideas the cause. all were loaded to 1.040 chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Overcrimped is my guess.Use a kinetic bullet puller to see what the bullet looks like.Also, how much bell are you using?Is there any shavings while the bullet is being seated?Have you slugged your barrel?Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetc Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 hello himurax13 Overcrimped is my guess. i will check that, but i have not bothered that crimp setting in yrs, other bullets no issues no shavings, did not slug barrel, 4 9mm pistols all keyholed. gonna pull the rest of the bullets and let ya know thanks chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 What bullet brand? What powders and charges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMP Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Is the barrel leaded up? My APX started to keyhole a few after it was fouled pretty bad. CZs just got sloppy. This is .356 and .357 bullets. Coated bullets are not tolerant of less than a well thought out process. And thats in addition to the right dia. for your gun. I just loaded up 200 125g Brazos sized .358 in an attempt to cure my leading problems. To do this with positively no swaging of that bullet down, I use an NOE expander with .358/.362 dia. The larger dia allows perfect alignment of the bullets unlike a bell, and the die is adjusted for about .030" depth of this dia. Barely any crimp. Loaded ten dummies, measured all. Cycled all through each of my guns five times. Measured again, no setback. Pulled and measured all bullets, no swage. See what happens tomorrow at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Over crimp and or used the Lee FCD to “fix” things with an oversized coated bullet. I’ve also seen over crimped plated bullets key hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 It’s not bullet problem, but more of a reloader issue. Measure, test, and repeat until you figure out the issue. ”you haven’t changed anything in years” except for the projectile, which changes everything... be patient and test things, everyone here is guessing based on experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novagunner Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 What is your load data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 It’s not bullet problem, but more of a reloader issue. Measure, test, and repeat until you figure out the issue. ”you haven’t changed anything in years” except for the projectile, which changes everything... be patient and test things, everyone here is guessing based on experience.It can be if you buy previously loaded plated bullets for 3 cents a piece, lol. The funny part is that yhe keyholing did little to affect range or accuracy. I have used the Lee FCD to fix some loads that wouldnt pass the Hundo guage because I didn't want to pull the bullet. Keyholing seems to be random from that. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Are you shooting at a paper or cardboard target? Unsupported paper will look like the bullet is tumbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, himurax13 said: The funny part is that yhe keyholing did little to affect range or accuracy. 12" groups at 25 yards? Yep still on paper! Edited June 8, 2019 by HesedTech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Are you shooting at a paper or cardboard target? Unsupported paper will look like the bullet is tumbling.USPSA targets at varying distances. Seems to break the A zone perf quite often, lol.Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, himurax13 said: USPSA targets at varying distances. Seems to break the A zone perf quite often, lol. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk “Breaking” perfs is not a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushki25 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I loaded up a fairly large batch of bullets that keyholes once, when I started casting my own. If memory serves me correct I believe the cause was undersized bullets due to running everything too hot while casting like my hair was on fire. I took a lot of crap from from the guys I shoot with but honestly they seemed to fly straight and they caught a number of perfect for me as well. I called them line cutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, Mushki25 said: I loaded up a fairly large batch of bullets that keyholes once, when I started casting my own. If memory serves me correct I believe the cause was undersized bullets due to running everything too hot while casting like my hair was on fire. I took a lot of crap from from the guys I shoot with but honestly they seemed to fly straight and they caught a number of perfect for me as well. I called them line cutters. Better than a Charlie or Delta, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yondering Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 On 6/8/2019 at 4:28 AM, himurax13 said: It can be if you buy previously loaded plated bullets for 3 cents a piece, lol. That points to the answer right there - your bullets are probably undersized, which is a common cause of keyholing. Excessive crimp is a possibility too; with soft bullets (plated, swaged, or soft cast bullets) excessive crimp can squeeze the bullet down as it passes. If you still have some of that ammo that caused keyholes - pull a couple bullets and measure their diameter. You may find they are smaller than the bore; they should be the same size or up to a few thousandths larger than the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Yondering said: That points to the answer right there - your bullets are probably undersized, which is a common cause of keyholing. Excessive crimp is a possibility too; with soft bullets (plated, swaged, or soft cast bullets) excessive crimp can squeeze the bullet down as it passes. If you still have some of that ammo that caused keyholes - pull a couple bullets and measure their diameter. You may find they are smaller than the bore; they should be the same size or up to a few thousandths larger than the bore. Those plated bullets were over crimped when they were loaded previously. There were visible creases. I loaded them deeper than the creases and most of the rounds worked fine but there was quite a bit of random keyholing, LOL. So the takeaway here is not to buy pulled plated bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yondering Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) The point I'm making is that the crease itself is not the problem; undersized bullets are the problem. Plated bullets are soft enough that just being loaded once before and pulled (even if they had not been crimped) may have sized them down too much, depending on the loading process they went through before. I wouldn't buy pulled plated bullets either, but my hope is that understanding "why" will help you identify the real problem. Edited June 10, 2019 by Yondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetc Posted June 11, 2019 Author Share Posted June 11, 2019 On 6/8/2019 at 7:24 AM, Novagunner said: What is your load data? They were Penn 120gr tcbb lead, 4.3 wsf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremyc_1999 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 What pistol are you shooting them through? My glock 35 will not shoot certain lots of berry bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetc Posted June 11, 2019 Author Share Posted June 11, 2019 canik tp9sfx and and some keyholing with my shadow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 The point I'm making is that the crease itself is not the problem; undersized bullets are the problem. Plated bullets are soft enough that just being loaded once before and pulled (even if they had not been crimped) may have sized them down too much, depending on the loading process they went through before. I wouldn't buy pulled plated bullets either, but my hope is that understanding "why" will help you identify the real problem. I agree that undersized bullets are the problem.If any plated bullets are over crimped, which is basically anything more than removing the bell, that will probably occur.Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joedirt199 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 I had some tumbling with Penn 115 SWCs but I think I was pushing them too fast. My Penn 120 FP are some of the most accurate in my CZs. I use 4.0-4.2 WSF with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yondering Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 3 hours ago, himurax13 said: I agree that undersized bullets are the problem. If any plated bullets are over crimped, which is basically anything more than removing the bell, that will probably occur. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk Gotcha, I agree. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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