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cvincent

Belt falls off during COF

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What’s the call as an RO if a shooters belt partially falls off during a stage? Couldn’t find anything in the rules that specifically states this. Had a few people say he should get a re shoot, including a certified RO, I caught some slack for not stopping the shooter. I don’t see it as grounds for re shoot. Same as if any other piece of a shooters equipment fails, ie; gun or mags.

 

 

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Shooter equipment is on the shooter, no reshoot. Scored as shot. 

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5.3.3 requires the belt on the waist during the COF. 

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5 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

5.3.3 requires the belt on the waist during the COF. 

5.2.3 says they must wear a belt only, doesn’t say they get a reshoot if the belt falls off because they didn’t make sure it was secure. 

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5 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

5.3.3 requires the belt on the waist during the COF. 

you must mean 5.2.3.

 

looks to me like the competitor must reattach his belt on the clock, but i think the important thing is no-reshoot regardless.

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1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

you must mean 5.2.3.

 

looks to me like the competitor must reattach his belt on the clock, but i think the important thing is no-reshoot regardless.

 

Yes, thanks for correction on the typo. Agree that this falls in the category of "equipment failure" and should be corrected on the clock. 

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had a guy have his entire 3gun rig fall off during a stage...with a hot pistol in it.  there's a video somewhere up on youtube.  long story short, trip tp dairy queen.

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So whats the penalty for a belt not at waist level ?
Procedural ?  Stop  DQ ? Stop reshoot ?

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Posted (edited)

Since Rule 5.3.3 is in place to assure the competitor does not have an unfair advantage. I would think no procedural unless the belt dropping somehow gave him an advantage (unlikely) and no DQ unless his pistol was still in the holster and it dropped out of control.  Maintaining a competitor's equipment is the competitor's responsibility so no reshoot.

 

A DQ is still possible if in an attempt to retreive the belt the shooter does something unsafe like sweeping or breaking the 180.

Edited by Flatland Shooter

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28 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

Since Rule 5.3.3 is in place to assure the competitor does not have an unfair advantage. I would think no procedural unless the belt dropping somehow gave him an advantage (unlikely) and no DQ unless his pistol was still in the holster and it dropped out of control.  Maintaining a competitor's equipment is the competitor's responsibility so no reshoot.

 

A DQ is still possible if in an attempt to retreive the belt the shooter does something unsafe like sweeping or breaking the 180.

 

Agreed. And if the shooter decides to let it fall - as long as they’ve already drawn the gun - I’m thinking that’s okay. If they end up needing a mag and have to go back for it... sucks for them. 

 

But I might run this one by the guy who taught my RO class and see what he thinks. 

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1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

So whats the penalty for a belt not at waist level ?
Procedural ?  Stop  DQ ? Stop reshoot ?

If they are not a woman(exemptions are allowed for below hip) then RO should not start them until they fix for correct position. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, HoMiE said:

If they are not a woman(exemptions are allowed for below hip) then RO should not start them until they fix for correct position. 

Question was more about the OP, about during the COF, after the start.

Edited by Joe4d

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They'll have to safely ground the gun while putting their belt back on when they ULASC. Other than that, everyone has a giggle and the shooter learns about wardrobe.

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Is the gun is drawn from the holster already and no additional mags are needed it's kinda irrelevant and shouldn't matter unless it's taken off for a competitive advantage. 

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I guess a shooter should deal with this by safely placing the gun on the ground and then fixing the belt, then pick up the gun again and continue with the COF?

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No different that a catastrophic gun jam or any other equipment issue - should be corrected on the clock. My concern/question is what to do with the firearm. Grounding was mentioned above. Is that legal? What can you do with a firearm if holstering is not an option when you need to correct some kind of wardrobe malfunction?

 

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2 hours ago, 11MM said:

No different that a catastrophic gun jam or any other equipment issue - should be corrected on the clock. My concern/question is what to do with the firearm. Grounding was mentioned above. Is that legal? What can you do with a firearm if holstering is not an option when you need to correct some kind of wardrobe malfunction?

 

10.5.3 in the rulebook

You can put a gun down during a course of fire, but you have to comply with a number of conditions. You have to maintain full contact with the gun all the way until it's on the ground (ie. no throwing or dropping it). You have to remain within 3 feet of it. And quite importantly, the gun has to be either unloaded (empty chamber, magazine out, action open) OR the firearm is in the "ready condition". So if loaded, the hammer should be down or the safety should be on. I could be wrong though with my interpretation of the rules.

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What's the call?

 

Nothing.

 

I wouldn't waste time fixing it on the clock either unless I needed to grab a mag out of it or it was around my ankles and tripping me. 

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36 minutes ago, waktasz said:

What's the call?

 

Nothing.

 

I wouldn't waste time fixing it on the clock either unless I needed to grab a mag out of it or it was around my ankles and tripping me. 

 

Agreed.

 

If it’s halfway off, a quick offhand tug and it’s probably left behind if it’s tripping you up. Otherwise let it hang.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/4/2019 at 11:35 AM, cvincent said:

Had a few people say he should get a re shoot, including a certified RO, I caught some flak for not stopping the shooter.

 

Of course you did.

 

Welcome to local matches - where a centerpunched popper that doesn’t fall or a bad jam get you a reshoot from most of the timer holders. ;) 

 

Doesn’t mean you were wrong if those guys think you were being a jerk.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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21 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Of course you did.

 

Welcome to local matches - where a centerpunched popper that doesn’t fall or a bad jam get you a reshoot from most of the timer holders. ;) 

 

Doesn’t mean you were wrong if those guys think you were being a jerk.

 

 

Timer holders, ha! That's sadly way too true.

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This is a big grey area in the rules that could easily be fixed, we have recent discussed it in various topics here.

 

I think updating the rules to state that the shooter must be equipment/division compliant at the start signal, would be the best solution. I would make it across the board for everything. I would have it replace the rules making picking up a mag and stowing it in the wrong place for Prod, CO, SS. Gear locations and distances, heck I would not even care about mag capacity (if the shooter wants to load up a mag on the clock in production more power to them)  about the only thing I could see being a issue after the beep is if somehow someone figures out how to make a quick attach optical sight, and that would be easy enough to make a no go with some careful wording in the rule. 

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Would that actually gain us anything? Is this a gaping hole in the existing rules that needs to be filled? Do you work for congress? We don't need more rules just to make more rules

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This is a big grey area in the rules that could easily be fixed, we have recent discussed it in various topics here.
 
I think updating the rules to state that the shooter must be equipment/division compliant at the start signal, would be the best solution. I would make it across the board for everything. I would have it replace the rules making picking up a mag and stowing it in the wrong place for Prod, CO, SS. Gear locations and distances, heck I would not even care about mag capacity (if the shooter wants to load up a mag on the clock in production more power to them)  about the only thing I could see being a issue after the beep is if somehow someone figures out how to make a quick attach optical sight, and that would be easy enough to make a no go with some careful wording in the rule. 


*production shooter*
Standby>BEEP> slaps his Glock into a Roni SBR. Squirts bullets everywhere.


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