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broadside72

Cleaning at safe table

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11 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:
  • At Area 4 a few years ago I got a stern warning about sweeping while working on a pistol in a safety area.  It came from the RM as he walked by.  He decided to stick around a few minutes to see that I complied.

Sounds like someone that should not be a range officer or even allowed to be at a match. 

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I'm still trying to figure out why you would want/need to clean a gun at a match?  

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6 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

I'm still trying to figure out why you would want/need to clean a gun at a match?  

 

as stated in my OP, its because the gun starts to have issues 3/4 way through the match as it gets dirty

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How many times does someone have a squib and have to go to the safe table with a rod and remove the stuck projectile? I have seen that many times and they are not DQ'd.

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12 minutes ago, mchapman said:

How many times does someone have a squib and have to go to the safe table with a rod and remove the stuck projectile? I have seen that many times and they are not DQ'd.

 

I would tend to agree with this, but I do think the USPSA rules are open to interpretation on this. 10.5.5 isn't clear to me, and I think it could be argued either way.  Since the course of fire is over and the pistol has been verified to be clear, I would argue that it isn't sweeping under the rules. However, I could see some an RO having a different interpretation if he/she saw your hand in front of the barrel.

 

20 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

I'm still trying to figure out why you would want/need to clean a gun at a match?  

My Les Baer with a 16# recoil spring won't finish 10 stages without at least one trip to the safe area for a gentle cleaning with q-tips and a bore snake.  Doing it this way has resulted in 100% reliability.

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If I had guns that wouldn't at minimum make it through a 10 stage match, I would get new guns.  Seriously, you shouldn't have to deal with that. 
When custom open guns will go well over 1000 rounds between cleanings, not making it through a match is just ridiculous.  
I won't even go into the probable  negatives to your match performance.  
Your goal should always be to simply show up and shoot.  Not worry about equipment.  

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42 minutes ago, mchapman said:

How many times does someone have a squib and have to go to the safe table with a rod and remove the stuck projectile? I have seen that many times and they are not DQ'd.

 

But you can easily disassemble most (all) centerfire pistols without putting your hand in front of the muzzle and then you can work on the squib as needed. A disassembled gun is not a gun (per Troy)

 

3 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

If I had guns that wouldn't at minimum make it through a 10 stage match, I would get new guns.  Seriously, you shouldn't have to deal with that. 
When custom open guns will go well over 1000 rounds between cleanings, not making it through a match is just ridiculous.  
I won't even go into the probable  negatives to your match performance.  
Your goal should always be to simply show up and shoot.  Not worry about equipment.  

 

Rimfires can be notorious for having feed issues. I just need to send it out to a shop that can spend the time fitting it and testing it until it's right.

 

My centerfire pistol has not been cleaned in 8 matches, so around 1k rounds and it runs fine. 

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Kinda off topic, but one other area that causes issues with my Buckmark is the bolt carrier. All rimfire is very dirty, unlike centerfire ammo. But some worse than others. If mine starts to misbehave I use a bore snake and also use a pick like tool to clear out the build-up on the bolt where the rimfire sits inside the carrier. Otherwise the bullet doesn't seat all the way in and the firing pin will make a light strike. I also see that on my 15/22 rifle. Make sure that is clean too.

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2.4.1 specifically calls out 10.5.1 and 10.5.12, so are those the ONLY DQ-able offenses at a safe table as long as you are doing one of the items listed in 2.4.1.1-4?

 

It does seem like a safe assumption but the generic "safe direction" statement has me unsure.

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On 6/2/2019 at 3:48 PM, broadside72 said:

 

So my centerfire pistols I can easily pull the slide to quickly clean my gun if need be at a safe table.

 

However my rimfire Steel Challenge pistol I can't do that without pulling the rail, etc. since it's a buckmark.

 

Anyone have options for not getting DQ'd while cleaning it without disassembly? If gate to lose a small screw at the range. I can get 6 stages or so before it starts to have issues

 

Depending on which rail and sight you have, loosen the barrel retaining screw, then remove the rear sight rail screw.  Retract the slide slightly and tip the barrel/rail assembly off the frame.  Re-assembly is the reverse, tightening the rear sight rail screw before tightening the barrel retaining screw puts a very slight side load on the rear sight rail screw which helps somewhat to prevent it from loosening.

 

 

10 hours ago, zzt said:

My Buckmark had the same problem when using dirty ammo and a highly touted oil that turned out to be not so good.  I used a bore snake.  I dropped the brass end down through the empty magwell and out the ejection port.  Then I dropped the brass weight into the chamber and fed it down the barrel.  When you pull the snake out of the barrel you clean the feed ramp, chamber and barrel.  Do this two or three times and you are good.  I added oil between the slide and frame.  The fit is loose enough that it got in.

 

Changing to CCI AR Tactical ammo and Weapon Shield oil completely eliminated the problem.  Trying some of the new CCI Patriotic poly coated ammo brought is back with a vengeance.  That stuff is incredibly dirty.  It is even worse than the Federal Automatch I had been originally using.

 

7 hours ago, AdamM said:

Kinda off topic, but one other area that causes issues with my Buckmark is the bolt carrier. All rimfire is very dirty, unlike centerfire ammo. But some worse than others. If mine starts to misbehave I use a bore snake and also use a pick like tool to clear out the build-up on the bolt where the rimfire sits inside the carrier. Otherwise the bullet doesn't seat all the way in and the firing pin will make a light strike. I also see that on my 15/22 rifle. Make sure that is clean too.

 

This!!!  A bore snake to clean the chamber or a bent .243 brass bore brush like this to clean the chamber

https://www.gunsmithertools.com/product-page/brush-n-mop-chamber-tool

 

A couple of round wooden toothpicks to clean the barrel face and the breach face especially in the casehead recess.

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I know how to clean my gun, it's the chance of losing a screw or washer or other part in the field that I'm worried about

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I also have had the rear screw come loose MANY times, the making the bolt carrier ride unevenly, which cases FTFire/Feed.  Even with blue Loctite!  The little star washer never worked either.  That rear screw is terrible...

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I know for an absolute fact that the recent RO class the instructor trainer said that you can not be DQed for muzzling yourself at the safe table. That rule only applies to the coarse of fire.

 

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8 hours ago, Diver123 said:

I know for an absolute fact that the recent RO class the instructor trainer said that you can not be DQed for muzzling yourself at the safe table. That rule only applies to the coarse of fire.

 

Nothing is an absolute fact. There are several RMI’s and it’s widely known they are capable of having differing interpretations of the rules.

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11 hours ago, Diver123 said:

I know for an absolute fact that the recent RO class the instructor trainer said that you can not be DQed for muzzling yourself at the safe table. That rule only applies to the coarse of fire.

 

 

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

Nothing is an absolute fact. There are several RMI’s and it’s widely known they are capable of having differing interpretations of the rules.

 

 

I think what Diver123 is saying is that it is an absolute fact that he was told by an instructor that you can't get DQed for muzzling yourself at the safe table.  

 

I agree with Sarge that others may have a different opinion and take a different course of action.

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14 hours ago, AdamM said:

I also have had the rear screw come loose MANY times, the making the bolt carrier ride unevenly, which cases FTFire/Feed.  Even with blue Loctite!  The little star washer never worked either.  That rear screw is terrible...

 

I keep a wrench in my pistol case, and give that screw a little snug before I load for every stage. I can go 2-3 stages of steel challenge without a problem, but eventually it will loosen up enough to cause a problem, so it's just part of my make ready routine now.

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