SAO vs DA SA

[1911vm]

good morning. i have an interest in getting a SA sp01 build. I have never handled a SA only gun. so besides the flat trigger what is difference between SA only and the SA on a DASA gun trigger pull. thanks

Edited June 2, 2019 by 1911vm

[himurax13]

The static reset. This location is further forward on the flat trigger than the curved trigger.

 

I have been modding CZ's for about a decade and the only real advantage, other than less need to polish, that I can see from a SAO conversion is being able to run a heavier hammer spring.

 

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[1911vm]

you have to understand the only SAO gun i have is a 1911. are you saying that the reset is longer on a SAO than DASA ??? and what is the benefit  of heavier hammer spring.

[himurax13]

you have to understand the only SAO gun i have is a 1911. are you saying that the reset is longer on a SAO than DASA ??? and what is the benefit  of heavier hammer spring.

I am talking about the length of pull, where you stick your finger on the trigger. The curved trigger sits back further so it is closer to the frame.

If the modifications are the same, the actual reset should be the same, roughly 2 to 3 mm.

You can run a heavier hammer spring on the SAO because there is no double action trigger pull to deal with. Hammer Spring weight doesn't affect the single action pull weight that much.

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[1911vm]

Just so I understand correctly the length of reset is the same but the finger location is closer to the grip on curved trigger? And if that is correct the only benefit is flat trigger and hammer spring.  

Edited June 1, 2019 by 1911vm

[himurax13]

Just so I understand correctly the length of reset is the same but the finger location is closer to the grip on curved trigger? And if that is correct the only benefit is flat trigger and hammer spring.  

And being able to use a heavier hammer spring without affecting the weight of the trigger pull in single action. For instance, the average SA trigger pull with an agressive DA/SA trigger job is around 2 lbs with an 11.5# hammer spring.

 

With just a few mods and little to no polishing, you can achieve roughly the same trigger pull with the SAO trigger with a 13 lb or greater hammer spring. This is under the assumption that both setups have an aftermarket hammer since the hook angles are vastly different than the standard 75b trigger.

 

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[Tok36]

  Himurax13 makes an interesting point about SAO hammer spring weight options that i had not previously considered. As he stated the absence of a DA dose allow more leeway in the hammer spring weight without the detractors of a DA/SA set up. Interesting stuff.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Tok36

[Max It]

HI Ya, i am not clear on the details; however if you are doing competition shooting SAO is much better as every pull is the same and equal.

now my problem with CZ is that in some comps they want me to start with safety on which is difficult as i have 50,000 rounds with my XD and that has no safetyz (muscle memory).

[himurax13]

HI Ya, i am not clear on the details; however if you are doing competition shooting SAO is much better as every pull is the same and equal.
now my problem with CZ is that in some comps they want me to start with safety on which is difficult as i have 50,000 rounds with my XD and that has no safetyz (muscle memory).

What point are you trying to make?

Every manual CZ75b can be locked and cocked, thus operate in Single Action.

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[billthemarine2862]

37 minutes ago, Max It said:

HI Ya, i am not clear on the details; however if you are doing competition shooting SAO is much better as every pull is the same and equal.

now my problem with CZ is that in some comps they want me to start with safety on which is difficult as i have 50,000 rounds with my XD and that has no safetyz (muscle memory).

 

What division do you shoot with your XDM?  A CZ that is SAO shoots in the limited division and you must start with the safety engaged. If you want to shoot a CZ without engaging the safety it must be a DA/SA.  

Either way you go it is going to be very different than your XDM.  One way because you must engage the safety,  and the other because you are going to have that heavier DA first trigger pull.

[Mcfoto]

Almost everyone I know who runs DA/SA on a CZ shoots production and starts hammer down. A few run CO. The hammer down at Make Ready scares me. Last week, my fears were realized when I witnessed a shooter set off an AD while putting his hammer down. Worse part: it was the last stage of the match. We'd made it through five stages to have it start raining before the last and he said his thumb slipped off the hammer.

 

The few guys I know who shoot CZ/ Tanfo's in limited have converted them to SA only (and obviously use the safety).

[dansedgli]

I converted mine.  Overrated.  I converted it back and just used the safety when i wanted and still had the ability to shoot prod. 

 

 

[himurax13]

Almost everyone I know who runs DA/SA on a CZ shoots production and starts hammer down. A few run CO. The hammer down at Make Ready scares me. Last week, my fears were realized when I witnessed a shooter set off an AD while putting his hammer down. Worse part: it was the last stage of the match. We'd made it through five stages to have it start raining before the last and he said his thumb slipped off the hammer.

 

The few guys I know who shoot CZ/ Tanfo's in limited have converted them to SA only (and obviously use the safety).

 

That's actually a good thing because it is an opportunity for people to learn. Detonating the primer while manually decocking rarely ever happens and when it does, it is due to poor technique. Thumbing down and the pinch method can easily allow that to happen. The finger roll method does not. Hopefully he will take the time to learn the proper method.

 

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[Max It]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 7:31 AM, billthemarine2862 said:

 

What division do you shoot with your XDM?  A CZ that is SAO shoots in the limited division and you must start with the safety engaged. If you want to shoot a CZ without engaging the safety it must be a DA/SA.  

Either way you go it is going to be very different than your XDM.  One way because you must engage the safety,  and the other because you are going to have that heavier DA first trigger pull.

Bill, exactly. So i use my xD9 tactical for fast shooting and my CZ75B SA for bullseye matches.

{ first 8 years of ownership on CZ was for 'Steel Madness' matches. Where we didn't exactly follow the rules of IDPA or any other. Hence no one insisted I have the hammer down, Ah those were the days. }

much obliged, Max

Edited June 23, 2019 by Max It
expanded

[rowdyb]

To me, there is no benefit to conversion.  The gun in its da/sa form allows you to start sa if you wish so making the gun sao is a detraction if you ask me.

[1911vm]

So I have to admit.  I really like how the flat trigger looks. That is almost enough for me.  Lol

[billthemarine2862]

I do think Rowdy brings up a good point in the sense that with a properly fitted disco you can have a DA/SA gun where the SA has  virtually no pre-travel just the same as using a SAO gun with a pre-travel screw to limit pre-travel.  Making it easy to start cocked and locked and run SAO. 

 

I know a lot of Tanfo shooters will even fit a BOLO in their SAO guns and use a flat trigger.  They obviously never use these guns in DA. The main advantage to this type of setup would be that you don't have to worry about a pre-travel screw walking out at a bad time.

 

What Rowdy suggests is the best of both worlds. Just find a trigger with a profile you like, get a short reset disco and you can run it either way.

[Tok36]

I too have yet to find a CZ SAO trigger set up attractive over a DA/SA. There are certainly allot of SAO fans though, this dose not seam to change. Neat looking triggers seam to go a long way, it is why i piked up the first one i experimented with. I do like the Tac Sports in SAO but i find it to be a different animal from a 75.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Tok36

[1911vm]

I am not getting rid of my DA/SA shadow I like it to much LOL.  what my primary goal is to have two shadows one with SAO and one DA/SA  one with a dot. this way I can swap slides between them as I please. If I want to shoot production, SSP,  ESP, carry optics,  steel challenge  iron or optic , bullseye , 3 gun and others.  all on the same platform. with two guns

[MoRivera]

I run this gun SAO, even though it is technically DA/SA.  The reason I switched back to this from a SAO trigger is as Himurax points out, the trigger reach....a la, I'm so used to the SA trigger of my regular SA/SA Shadow i use for Production in USPSA, I decided to keep it the same for this gun, which I shoot in limited or with an optic for steel/plates.

 

 

What I like about this trigger ('Old Style' 85C trigger with overtravel screw) is that it doesn't break too far back against the rear 'wall'.  Where you see it here is essentially where it breaks with just a bit of takeup.  And I also generally prefer curved triggers over straight ones.

[1911vm]

I really prefer flat triggers . all 1911s slowly changing ARs also.  The only curved triggers I actually use is my shadow and revolver.  I think I will just go for it.  the worst case I will have to reverse it.

[858]

This gun now has a flat trigger and Shadow Orange safety, went back to the CZUB hammer and disco too. SA is mushy with lower weight mainsprings, I've got a 13lb in it and and the pull weight is 1.2lb. I hadn't shot it in two years (never in a match either) and still managed to pull a high A classifier this weekend shooting Limited Minor. It's a fun pistol but I hardly ever shoot 9mm.

 

[1911vm]

going to put the order in with CZc   this week.      Magwell or no magwell  is the only questions left

[himurax13]

I run this gun SAO, even though it is technically DA/SA.  The reason I switched back to this from a SAO trigger is as Himurax points out, the trigger reach....a la, I'm so used to the SA trigger of my regular SA/SA Shadow i use for Production in USPSA, I decided to keep it the same for this gun, which I shoot in limited or with an optic for steel/plates.

 

 

What I like about this trigger ('Old Style' 85C trigger with overtravel screw) is that it doesn't break too far back against the rear 'wall'.  Where you see it here is essentially where it breaks with just a bit of takeup.  And I also generally prefer curved triggers over straight ones.

 

If you fit a type 3 disco and remove the wing, you can eliminate the pre travel if you were to go SAO. Otherwise just leave the wing on.

 

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[himurax13]

I personally dont feel it's worth it for the extra half an ounce. You have to run either the magwell style basepad and a 17 round mag from Springer or run an 18 round mag with a czc basepad. Additional fitting may be required.

 

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