Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

in that case, tell your older friends to stop being whiners. It's not attractive.

 

We already have way too many divisions. It's lame to 'win' your division when only 3 people are shooting it.

 

So what’s wrong with allowing 55 year old competitors to use a dot?

 

A few years ago there was discussion on “production optics,” and look where we are now: the fastest growing division. 

 

There was also also talk on PCC, and guess what, we now have PCC. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

So what’s wrong with allowing 55 year old competitors to use a dot?

 

we are already allowed to use a dot in 3 different divisions.

 

The real problem is that I would start winning matches with a dot on my limited gun, and people would get their panties in a knot pretty quickly. Rightfully so, because it would be stupid and unsporting.

Edited by motosapiens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, motosapiens said:

 

they are already allowed to use a dot in 3 different divisions.

 

Are you afraid the old guy is going to beat you because he has a dot? That is the vibe I’m getting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

Are you afraid the old guy is going to beat you because he has a dot? That is the vibe I’m getting. 

I know with certainty that old guys like me would improve 7-10% with a dot, and that would put us ahead of a lot of people who would rightfully be upset about it. 

Edited by motosapiens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

I know with certainty that old guys like me would improve 7-10% with a dot, and that would put us ahead of a lot of people who would rightfully be upset about it. 

 

Turning down an advantage because it might upset the whippersnappers. Chivalrous 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, HCH said:

 

Turning down an advantage because it might upset the whippersnappers. Chivalrous 🤣

 

I'm just not a cheater. I don't see any satisfaction in cheating. It's patronizing and poor sportsmanship to assume that people need or want to cheat just because they are getting older.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, motosapiens said:

 

I'm just not a cheater. I don't see any satisfaction in cheating. It's patronizing and poor sportsmanship to assume that people need or want to cheat just because they are getting older.

 

It wouldn’t be CO style MANDATING the addition of a dot...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we should let old people score major in Production too... :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be a senior next year.  I'm against any age-based divisions; age based categories are adequate.

 

In golf, senior men still hit from the men's tees not the women's tees.  Keeping up with the younger guys on a level playing field is good motivation to stay in shape as we get older.  I don't see Jerry Miculek asking for any handicaps.

 

Everybody likes looking at HOA anyway.  Put an optic on your limited gun, shoot open division and just compare yourself to all the younger guys shooting LIMITED!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ll say it again, let the classification system do it’s job. I made A in Limited 20 years ago. I’ll never make M, and I can’t shoot to A Limited levels anymore. Doesn’t mean I need a new division. If I got back into iron sights, I’d most likely request a reduction in class, or live with my B level scores while competing with the A’s. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it depends on which area of the country you live in.  Around me, the smallest USPSA match is 60 people.  The largest is 80 something.  There are lots of Seniors and Super Seniors.  I've never heard a complaint that they should be allowed to use a dot in a Division that doesn't allow it.  They just shoot in a Division that allows dots and love it.  When you ask why they shoot what they do you get an answer that goes something like this.  There is no way I ever going to be competitive.  I shoot this because I have it and I love shooting.

 

I will say that CO started slowly.  When they allowed full 140 mags, participation jumped dramatically.  I'll also note we used to have more Open minor shooters.  A lot switched to CO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Category shooters.... I tell ya.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the question is fo we create a new division for non competitive shooters to be non competative in with minor work to their existing equipment.
No sorry just shoot open.

The actual performance difference between a 40 limited with a dot and a full on open gun is actually very very small. If we are taking about older shooters wanting to use a dot on the guns they already have I doubt they would be able to see the difference in their scores between a 40 limited with a dot and a 9 open with 170 mags

A friend of mine was quite competitive at the area match level shooting a G35 with a dot and no comp.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The need for Divisions should be based on equipment not competitors.  If there was a Limited Optics it won't help anyone vs anyone in that division, the best shooter would prevail in that division.  If one needs a dot to shoot, Open/CO/PCCO are all different platforms with different expected expenses.  I'd see no reason for a Limited Optics than I would for a Revolver Optics, and this from a Revolver competitor who needs glasses to see the front sight (let alone use it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

We already have way too many divisions. It's lame to 'win' your division when only 3 people are shooting it.

This is so true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

The need for Divisions should be based on equipment not competitors.  If there was a Limited Optics it won't help anyone vs anyone in that division, the best shooter would prevail in that division.  If one needs a dot to shoot, Open/CO/PCCO are all different platforms with different expected expenses.  I'd see no reason for a Limited Optics than I would for a Revolver Optics, and this from a Revolver competitor who needs glasses to see the front sight (let alone use it).

 

To what end though? IMO, Open and Limited are the only two needed. And PCC, if we care about keeping that division. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, HCH said:

IMO, Open and Limited are the only two needed.

Then follow you're own reductive logic and dismiss the idea of wanting Lim-Optics.

 

The cat's out of the bag, genie out of the bottle and so on. Do you know the political machinations it would take make a huge change to the USPSA divisions. You'd have to be president, get BOD members on your side and have the vote of a majority of Area folks. Who has the social skills, desire, time and ability to do this? I don't think anyone.

 

Yeah we all can play, "If I was king and doing a total re-write it would be like XYZ", and sometimes I enjoy playing out those thought processes. But Lim Optics is one I'd kill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Then follow you're own reductive logic and dismiss the idea of wanting Lim-Optics.

 

The cat's out of the bag, genie out of the bottle and so on. Do you know the political machinations it would take make a huge change to the USPSA divisions. You'd have to be president, get BOD members on your side and have the vote of a majority of Area folks. Who has the social skills, desire, time and ability to do this? I don't think anyone.

 

Yeah we all can play, "If I was king and doing a total re-write it would be like XYZ", and sometimes I enjoy playing out those thought processes. But Lim Optics is one I'd kill.

 

Either everyone should get a participation trophy, or we should have two divisions. I don’t think there’s any middle ground. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HCH said:

 

Either everyone should get a participation trophy, or we should have two divisions. I don’t think there’s any middle ground. 

Seems like an arbitrary dividing line, but if you feel strongly about it, run for president on a platform of radically restructuring the divisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

Seems like an arbitrary dividing line

 

Such is our sport 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2019 at 2:02 PM, HCH said:

Over the past year, I have been shooting a lot of Carry Optics. One thing that has come up in conversation with older competitors is the thought of running a dot on their Limited guns, as eyesight and such isn’t what it used to be. Most of these guys have shot Limited extensively and are used to their guns, loads, stage breakdown, etc. 

 

Would it be worthwhile for USPSA to create a “Limited Optics” division? Perhaps it would only be available to seniors? Or maybe allow Seniors and Super Seniors to use a red dot in Limited?

 

This division already exists.  It's called open.  Set up your gun how you wish, come shoot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

This division already exists.  It's called open.  Set up your gun how you wish, come shoot.

 

That was the same thing that was said when CO was first being lobbied for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, HCH said:

 

That was the same thing that was said when CO was first being lobbied for. 

and it was valid then, too.

 

if  hundreds of people start shooting open with their 40 limited guns and dots, that will prove a need for a division. Until then, it's just mental fapping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

That was the same thing that was said when CO was first being lobbied for. 

 

Good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

That was the same thing that was said when CO was first being lobbied for. 

 

I was all for PCC and CO.  Both were new, untapped markets.  I bought my daughter a CO ready gun for her home defense gun (Sig 320 RX).  I bought a PCC (JP GMR-15) because I wanted to shoot an AR type rifle in competition but 3-gun was too much of a time commitment.  However, I mostly shoot OPEN.

 

The success of both PCC and CO proves USPSA made the right decisions on those two new divisions.

 

Limited optics is not tapping into a new market and would just dilute the LIMITED division.  I’ve read that .40 cal is losing popularity in the LEO market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...