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Recoil spring # on a 38sc? And shock buffs?


Ozy
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For those of you cutting all these coils, is it because of a stroked system to prevent binding?? Commander length guide rod?? I'm intrigued, please explain.

 

My full size Open gun: 8# variable with 1 aluminum buff

My Middy: 10# variable commander 1 buff

All coils intact

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17 minutes ago, Balakay said:

For those of you cutting all these coils, is it because of a stroked system to prevent binding?? Commander length guide rod?? I'm intrigued, please explain.

 

My full size Open gun: 8# variable with 1 aluminum buff

My Middy: 10# variable commander 1 buff

All coils intact

 

Because stroking.

Otherwise the coils will bind.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Balakay said:

For those of you cutting all these coils, is it because of a stroked system to prevent binding?? Commander length guide rod?? I'm intrigued, please explain.

 

My full size Open gun: 8# variable with 1 aluminum buff

My Middy: 10# variable commander 1 buff

All coils intact

 

Stroked system doesn't have anything to do with coil binding.  The coil compressed length just needs to fit inside the reverse plug.  Buffs, stroking, etc. are irrelevant to that.  

 

So yes, some guns, like IMM's with IMM length reverse plugs need coils trimmed to not coil bind.  A government plug normally has plenty room to not require trimming.

 

Cutting coils stiffens the spring but reduces the total spring load both in battery and through slide travel.  Makes the spring effectively softer improving the impulse and tracking.  

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47 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

Stroked system doesn't have anything to do with coil binding.  The coil compressed length just needs to fit inside the reverse plug.  Buffs, stroking, etc. are irrelevant to that.  

 

So yes, some guns, like IMM's with IMM length reverse plugs need coils trimmed to not coil bind.  A government plug normally has plenty room to not require trimming.

 

Cutting coils stiffens the spring but reduces the total spring load both in battery and through slide travel.  Makes the spring effectively softer improving the impulse and tracking.  

 

So how do you properly determine what the correct length is?  What steps would you take?  And once it is determined and cut to length, does it change the weight of the spring?

Edited by bigboy69
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1 hour ago, bigboy69 said:

 

So how do you properly determine what the correct length is?  What steps would you take?  And once it is determined and cut to length, does it change the weight of the spring?

 

Compress the spring onto the guide rod using the reverse plug.  If the reverse plug contacts the head of the guide rod you're good, but if the coil binds before the plug travels to the guide rod the spring is too long.  That's all that you *must* do.  After that, trim it for performance change.  See post above.

 

Technically, springs don't have a "weight".  Spring dynamics are defined by free length, rate, and block height.  The weights from the manufacturers are just arbitrary measurements (or numbers) to relatively compare what they make. 

 

So yes, absolutely, you change the characteristics of the spring when you cut it, that's why we do it.

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wackokid, I have an imm full size open in 38sc ,and my ammo is the ATLANTA arms, 125 jhp major. when iuse a 7# wolff variable with a polymer shock buff, the pistol wont recycle. it'll shoot one or 2 rounds and wont return to battery.

 with a standard svi 8# & polymer shockbuf ,the pistol cycles with zero issues ,but feels "snappier", and more "violent", albeit  quicker , faster splits.

 what gives/ how do I obtain a happy median?

 

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42 minutes ago, Ozy said:

wackokid, I have an imm full size open in 38sc ,and my ammo is the ATLANTA arms, 125 jhp major. when iuse a 7# wolff variable with a polymer shock buff, the pistol wont recycle. it'll shoot one or 2 rounds and wont return to battery.

 with a standard svi 8# & polymer shockbuf ,the pistol cycles with zero issues ,but feels "snappier", and more "violent", albeit  quicker , faster splits.

 what gives/ how do I obtain a happy median?

 

Have you trimmed it?

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25 minutes ago, Ozy said:

wackokid, I have an imm full size open in 38sc ,and my ammo is the ATLANTA arms, 125 jhp major. when iuse a 7# wolff variable with a polymer shock buff, the pistol wont recycle. it'll shoot one or 2 rounds and wont return to battery.

 with a standard svi 8# & polymer shockbuf ,the pistol cycles with zero issues ,but feels "snappier", and more "violent", albeit  quicker , faster splits.

 what gives/ how do I obtain a happy median?

 

 

To run light springs your gun must be very well tuned.  Getting the gun back into battery requires work and the lighter a spring is the less work it can do.  The idea is to remove anything the spring needs to overcome that is not directly required to get the slide returned and the gun back in battery.  Extra drag or friction on the disconnector, between the frame and slide, along the barrel, against the hammer, etc. is unnecessary work.  Rounds should strip easily out of the magazine and glide directly into the chamber and any hitch in this process is unnecessary work.  The gun should go smoothly into battery without any excessive tightness in the lockup or else that's unnecessary work.  

 

Running a heavy spring will power through problems like those listed above.  Running a light spring will expose those problems.

 

Also, if you're going to run light springs ditch the variable nonsense.  The most difficult part of getting into battery is the last cam up of the barrel on the slide stop where the spring is near its least compressed length.  All a variable spring does is take away a bit of spring load that'll help the gun lock up.

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9 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

All a variable spring does is take away a bit of spring load that'll help the gun lock up.

It has less load when unlocking which can be a good thing when tuned with the proper FPS and springs. 

Edited by echotango
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6 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

To run light springs your gun must be very well tuned.  Getting the gun back into battery requires work and the lighter a spring is the less work it can do.  The idea is to remove anything the spring needs to overcome that is not directly required to get the slide returned and the gun back in battery.  Extra drag or friction on the disconnector, between the frame and slide, along the barrel, against the hammer, etc. is unnecessary work.  Rounds should strip easily out of the magazine and glide directly into the chamber and any hitch in this process is unnecessary work.  The gun should go smoothly into battery without any excessive tightness in the lockup or else that's unnecessary work.  

 

Running a heavy spring will power through problems like those listed above.  Running a light spring will expose those problems.

 

Also, if you're going to run light springs ditch the variable nonsense.  The most difficult part of getting into battery is the last cam up of the barrel on the slide stop where the spring is near its least compressed length.  All a variable spring does is take away a bit of spring load that'll help the gun lock up.

 

A lot of things come into play when tuning your gun with the proper spring/s. Drag on your disconnect, drag on your ejector,  bullets too tight in the mag, slide being too lose or too tight etc.

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14 minutes ago, echotango said:

It has less load when unlocking which can be a good thing when tuned with the proper FPS and springs. 

 

When you start cutting already light springs the variable rate behavior becomes a liability. 

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17 minutes ago, TONY BARONE said:

Actually a variable spring aids in unlocking and has the same in battery weight as a standard rate spring.

 

If they have the same in battery load it's not really helping the gun unlock. As soon as the preload is overcome and the slide begins to move the gun is out of battery. 

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