ipsc spring change

[motosapiens]

On 8/4/2020 at 10:57 PM, BoyGlock said:

If I may add to the recoil spring gk g5 issue, I can cut the springs without disassembly of the rod, lowering their weight. I can do it until I got my preferred weight and still reliable of course. Is this a violation of the rules? I dont shoot pd now, just an idea.  

 

i don't do ipsc, and I think their rules are stupid, but..... the rules of physics are NOT stupid, and one of them is that if you cut a spring to shorten it, you will be *increasing* the spring weight. The good news is that you will be reducing the preload, which will still end up reducing the force/mm of travel in most applications. There is no charge for this pedantic know-it-allism.

Edited April 29, 2021 by motosapiens

[BritinUSA]

I’ve often thought that somewhere between IPSC’s over-burdensome regulations and USPSA’s absurd free-for-all lies a workable and effective Production rule-set.

[rowdyb]

9 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

I’ve often thought that somewhere between IPSC’s over-burdensome regulations and USPSA’s absurd free-for-all lies a workable and effective Production rule-set.

If I had to pick only one though, I would go with the ipsc verion of Prod versus the uspsa version. I think I am in the minority with this opinion.

[yekcoh]

18 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I feel your pain. When I went through my phase of "I want a different gun that is easier to shoot legally in everything I do" so I went back in time and got a Glock 34 fs/mos coming full circle on the first match gun I bought back clear in 2012. And then I spent a bit of money on it making it "the one gun" for so that I could shoot it in Prod and CO in uspsa/steel challenge and SSP and CO in IDPA. Boom done. *

 

And then as I thought about my World Shoot goal a little alarm bell went off in my head and reminded me that I KNEW the g34 wasn't on the ipsc prod list. Dang it! Time to emergency by a G17. And that's where this thread comes into the story.

 

*Yes I could shoot a P10f OR gun and have a gun to do all the things I mentioned at the beginning, but the lack of aftermarket for the gun just really keeps me from making it a game gun. It just doesn't work for me. So now I have an ipsc legal Shadow 2 Orange and Shadow 2 OR for the divisions I like in uspsa/steel challenge/ipsc. And I just ignore idpa for now.

 

Thanks. I'm glad you found a way and worked it out. Nonetheless, it's disheartening news for me. I just sent out a Glock17 to get it milled. I hope this won't be too big a compromise. I got a little more than 4 months to conjure up something for the match.

 

Quote

If I had to pick only one though, I would go with the ipsc verion of Prod versus the uspsa version. I think I am in the minority with this opinion.

 

I'm with OP on that. These last few updates really tore up the division. 59oz and flashlight is baseless. I have yet to find a flashlight holster that feels as good as typical CO holsters...

Edited April 29, 2021 by yekcoh

[slavex]

it's sad when the head of IROA doesn't know what he is talking about. He is inserting his own desires into this, not what the Rules Committee has actually said, or done. The rule is quite clear, and he's trying to change it. 18.4 Aftermarket springs and trigger assemblies are permitted.

[Trentogopolous]

What about heating just one end of the spring? If you take it over 400F it will start to soften up the heat treat. Measure the spring force at a given length and heat individual coils until you have the desired weight. Be aware the heat will travel, so be prepared to cool it quickly.

 

[shred]

Have you tried heating a spring?  They're fun to hit with a torch and watch them go all pretzel everywhere, but it doesn't really seem like a solution to the OPs problem.

 

"Mr Competitor, why does this spring have four coils smashed flat?  Zis is not factory!"

 

 

[Kuromatsu]

Hello everyone i will necropost this conversation as it's literally the best one on all the internet whilst searching this argument and i hope keeping this one active will help other people searching for replies in the future...


So... i bought a sacrificial spring assembly to experiment with for my glock and was wondering if this would make it legal:
I literally removed the rivet and replaced with a heat press threaded insert and a screw...

(note, the spring is not ideal, and i will find another one or even 2 but that's a story for another day)

Is this a violation of rule 17.1?

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Kuromatsu

[Schutzenmeister]

This is where I've observed the "gods of IPSC Rules" getting a little pedantic, if you will.  At the risk of sounding so myself, let me explain ...

 

On the face of it, rule 17.1 (in the PD Appendix) would seem to prohibit this if you are starting from an OFM spring assembly.  To wit:

 

Modifications to them, other than minor detailing (the removal of burrs and/or adjustments unavoidably required in order to fit replacement OFM parts or components), are prohibited.

 

However, rule 18.4 would seem to allow for "aftermarket" springs.  To wit:

 

Aftermarket springs and trigger assemblies are permitted.

 

It would seem difficult for me, either as the individual at the inspection table or as the RM when called to make a final ruling, just which is the case.  Exactly how am I to determine whether YOU modified an OFM part or you purchased an aftermarket part?  (Unless, of course, you volunteer that information ...)

 

(Reminder to readers ... The question is posted as an IPSC question ... USPSA rules are somewhat different here.)

[Kuromatsu]

Thank you SchutzenMeister,

My main problem is i live in Italy and RO and RM here have a "Black or white" approach...
So i'm searching for a solution as no "Official" reply is available right now... i guess the only way is "riveting" back with a same spec rivet and make it "permanent" again...

[Sinister4]

I have removed the factory rivet, then swapped out and/or cut springs then when perfect replaced the end with a new rivet.....I would have to believe this would be legal as the only thing changed is the springs themselves.  Ive also done a custom end shown below with a screw for easy swapping out of the springs, it threads into the polymer rod about a inch so no issues holding the stainless washer in place

[Schutzenmeister]

@Kuromatsu

 

I am an IROA RM.  I can sympathize with your situation.  Unfortunately, IPSC and/or IROA rarely issue official guidance ... even when specifically requested.

 

As to riveting versus a screw ... Either way, if you are modifying an OFM part I fear you still run afoul of 17.1.  However, if you purchase an aftermarket part all you have to comply with is 18.4.

 

In reality, it's highly unlikely anyone is going to have you disassemble your firearm to inspect internal parts since they can be replaced legally ... if you do it right.  I wish I (or anyone else, for that matter) could give you an "official" answer on the subject.  Unfortunately, at the moment, one does not exist.  All I can give you is my best advice.

 

This continues to be a pervasive problem since IPSC loosened the rules with respect to PD.

[rowdyb]

On 4/29/2021 at 8:50 PM, slavex said:

The rule is quite clear, and he's trying to change it. 18.4 Aftermarket springs and trigger assemblies are permitted.

I'll be going to Pan American with a timney trigger and an aftermarket recoil spring assembly.

[slavex]

4 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I'll be going to Pan American with a timney trigger and an aftermarket recoil spring assembly.

which is legal, unless Dino decides to interfere.