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rowdyb

ipsc spring change

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now that we can change recoil springs in ipsc, how would i do that and be legal in Production on a model that has a captured guide rod or system like in the gen 4 and 5 Glock?

 

and i do mean ipsc. trying to make sure i have a legal gun for us ipsc nats.

Edited by rowdyb

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Hi Rowdy...sympathetic to your cause as I do believe you wish to change from a captured to a non-captured guide rod assembly (probably tungsten or stainless steel guide rod) making it non-flexible, and facilitating easier change of spring weights such as alot of the other manufacturers have available as options...Glock does not..therefore to definitely be compliant with the new IPSC Production rules you would have to disassemble your OEM polymer assembly and change to whatever spring from any manufacturer you wish that would work with it....However, according to the new IPSC rules you are allowed to change out springs and also any trigger assemblies, the problem being what is the interpretation of trigger assemblies , and what parts does that include?....the official IPSC.org website came out with a clarification with the "IPSC Competition Rules Interpretations , January 2019" which says "A trigger assembly is defined as a mechanism that, once the trigger is pulled, activates the firing sequence of a firearm"...Unfortunately they do not list the parts they will accept and it is still quite open to various interpretations from "only parts directly connected to the trigger" up to and including "any secondary parts up to and until the gun goes bang" to this quote by Vince Pinto "My suspicion, based on the official interpretation, is that they will allow you to change any internal part except the barrel.", and taken by this interpretation you would then be allowed any aftermarket guide rod and spring you wish BUT noone knows for sure and it only depends on how it is interpreted at the next few major Level 3,4, or 5 International IPSC events........There are many aftermarket non-captive and even captive stainless steel guide rod assemblies available , the captive ones being near identical to the OEM in appearance and the likelihood of anyone disassembling a Production gun apart to verify if all the parts inside comply with the new IPSC Production rules is extremely unlikely........So it is basically up to you with whatever chance you wish to take as to internal parts..............Hope this helps as noone knows exactly what the new ruling includes or excludes

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On 5/25/2019 at 11:11 PM, rowdyb said:

now that we can change recoil springs in ipsc, how would i do that and be legal in Production on a model that has a captured guide rod or system like in the gen 4 and 5 Glock?

 

and i do mean ipsc. trying to make sure i have a legal gun for us ipsc nats.

 

On the Gen 3’s you could pop the cap out of the tip of the rod carefully, slide a 13lb ISMI spring in there, the snap it back in. That’s what I did in my Glock days.

 

I have no idea if such an approach is viable on a later model.

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I believe on later model Glocks you can just pull down on the spring and unscrew the screw at the top to replace with a different weight spring

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On 5/25/2019 at 11:11 PM, rowdyb said:

now that we can change recoil springs in ipsc, how would i do that and be legal in Production on a model that has a captured guide rod or system like in the gen 4 and 5 Glock?

 

and i do mean ipsc. trying to make sure i have a legal gun for us ipsc nats.

 

Rowdy

 

I'll double check and provide you an answer by PM that you can officially rely on for the US IPSC Nationals.

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9 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Rowdy

 

I'll double check and provide you an answer by PM that you can officially rely on for the US IPSC Nationals.

Thank you. I absolutely don't want an illegal gun. I keep reading the new 2019 rules but I don't have the on the ground experience with these new guns. I'm confident building a legal cz but the glock is a new world to me, especially the gen 5

Edited by rowdyb

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5 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Thank you. I absolutely don't want an illegal gun. I keep reading the new 2019 rules but I don't have the on the ground experience with these new guns. I'm confident building a legal cz but the glock is a new world to me, especially the gen 5

 

No problem … That's why RMs get paid the big bucks.  (ROFL)  I'm working the question now.  I'll get back to you as soon as I get a reliable answer!

 

In the meantime, here is a copy of the official IPSC Checklist … It's publicly available, so I'm not divulging any trade secrets!

 

http://www.ipsc.org/pdf/IPSC Handgun Equipment Check Handbook - Jan 2019 edition.pdf

 

 

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Rowdy...a more thorough breakdown of each division rules is in the IPSC Rulebook 2019 which I'm sure you have already looked at...go to www.ipsc.org/ , Rules, Handgun,  and then go to page 56 (Appendix D4 Production Division) and then pages 57,58 for Production Optics Division which I know you also shoot ............It is highly unlikely "Schutzenmeister" will be able to give a more precise answer to allowed " aftermarket springs and trigger assemblies" answer that was given in the IPSC Competition Rules Interpretations, January 30, 2019 which I noted in my post above as it has been asked by multitudes of shooters by their Regional Directors  to the proper IPSC Rules Committee Chairman for an answer on it and this is all that has been forthcoming

Edited by race1911

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Race1911

 

FYI ... I will be the RM for the aforementioned match.  I really don't have a choice but to get Rowdy an answer he can rely on.  If necessary I have the phone numbers for the folks who can give me the proper answer on speed dial.  He will get an answer and it will be one I can support and defend.

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11 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Race1911

 

FYI ... I will be the RM for the aforementioned match.  I really don't have a choice but to get Rowdy an answer he can rely on.  If necessary I have the phone numbers for the folks who can give me the proper answer on speed dial.  He will get an answer and it will be one I can support and defend.

Thanks Schutzenmeister, there are multitudes of us out here worldwide shooting IPSC that would very much like to know the extent of parts the "trigger assemblies" refers to (I believe the question though by Rowdy concerns using an aftermarket guide rod in a Glock)  , but as yet have had no exact clarification on even though many Regional Directors have gone thru the correct channels with the IPSC Rules Committee (Chairman is Bob Chittleborough)...no offense was implied towards you but you can see from the extent gone to to get a direct answer the doubt I had that you would be able to easily get a direct answer, many have tried, kudos to you if you succeed

Edited by race1911

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I want to run a different spring rate than stock. The weight of the rod, or style, is really immaterial to me. I just want a different rate spring.

 

Since I can change springs in the new rules and the only way to change the spring in the new guns, at least that I've found, includes also change the guide rod, I'm curious how I can legally do this.

 

I have found dual spring aftermarket set ups that look similar to stock, but they all state they are the same spring rate as stock and that the rod material is the only change. I am not looking for the classic "add weight to the front of the glock with a heavier guide rod" as much as I'm looking to run a lighter weight spring. Hopefully legally. If because of my chosen gun's design this can't happen in ipsc rules then I just have to live with it.

Edited by rowdyb

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Rowdy....I believe Glock offers different spring weights.....to change springs I believe you just unscrew the screw at the top of the guide rod

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9 minutes ago, race1911 said:

believe Glock offers different spring weights

Darn, if they do I sure haven't found them..... And I emailed customer service about this last week.

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Sorry for my misunderstanding then......maybe someone else has better info and possibly Schutzenmeister will come up with an answer allowing you to change out your guide rod which would allow you to order a spring from any aftermarket manufacturer...Good Luck

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Rowdy....checked the web and Midway USA has all sorts of Glock genuine factory recoil spring assemblies in stock...check it out

Edited by race1911

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Have you checked The Glock Store?  They have SS captured rod assemblies for Gen 4-5 with colored ends.  I don't see it stated but I believe the color matches a particular spring rate.  I'd assume, a very dangerous thing too, that the colors correspond to the Gen 3 rates.

Edited by pskys2

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this from midway is factory

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/427309/glock-guide-rod-and-recoil-spring-assembly-glock-17-34-gen-4

nothing using the terms "glock recoil spring" on midway is any different than stock for a gen 5 34. and the rod the springs are on is not screwed together but riveted.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=glock+recoil+spring+&uac=true&userItemsPerPage=48

 

from the glock store, under performance parts tab, then guide rods selection

https://www.glockstore.com/competition/guide-rods

the ones with the colored ends are not gen5 style but single captured spring for gen 3 and 4 and dual spring kind for gen 4. but i'd be changing my rod doing that as they are stainless steel or tungsten. the sole gen 5 version they list is a tungsten guide rod, and while it looks the same it is not. yes i'd be changing the spring but i'd also be changing the rod.

these are them: https://www.glockstore.com/GEN-5-Tungsten-Guide-Rod

aaaannnndddd if you read the fine print those are only in the same spring weight as factory. so i wouldn't be changing springs, just rod material. which isn't legal.

 

also the colors are purely cosmetic, and not an indication of spring weight.

 

So the question remains, is there a legal way to change the recoil spring weight on a gen 5 glock in ipsc production. To me, initially the answer seems no.

Edited by rowdyb

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Rowdy...came across this older post from GlockTalk..look at POST 7.Sept 2/2010 #5 from GRR....not sure if your guide rod in the Gen5 is built similar but if it is then here is a possible solution using the stock guide rod and whatever spring rate you wish to put in it

G19 recoil spring removal from guide rod The Leading Glock Forum and Community - GlockTalk.com.html

Edited by race1911

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Sadly they are different now. Thank you though!

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22 hours ago, rowdyb said:

this from midway is factory

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/427309/glock-guide-rod-and-recoil-spring-assembly-glock-17-34-gen-4

nothing using the terms "glock recoil spring" on midway is any different than stock for a gen 5 34. and the rod the springs are on is not screwed together but riveted.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=glock+recoil+spring+&uac=true&userItemsPerPage=48

 

from the glock store, under performance parts tab, then guide rods selection

https://www.glockstore.com/competition/guide-rods

the ones with the colored ends are not gen5 style but single captured spring for gen 3 and 4 and dual spring kind for gen 4. but i'd be changing my rod doing that as they are stainless steel or tungsten. the sole gen 5 version they list is a tungsten guide rod, and while it looks the same it is not. yes i'd be changing the spring but i'd also be changing the rod.

these are them: https://www.glockstore.com/GEN-5-Tungsten-Guide-Rod

aaaannnndddd if you read the fine print those are only in the same spring weight as factory. so i wouldn't be changing springs, just rod material. which isn't legal.

 

also the colors are purely cosmetic, and not an indication of spring weight.

 

So the question remains, is there a legal way to change the recoil spring weight on a gen 5 glock in ipsc production. To me, initially the answer seems no.

https://www.glockstore.com/competition/guide-rods?_ga=2.35990048.1866067394.1559155634-1044580643.1559155634 shows a SS Gen 5 non-captured extended guide rod, could be cut down to factory length, or is that also not allowed for IPSC?

Edited by pskys2

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..at this point it appears only factory guide rods are allowed, not aftermarket....any spring though......because Glock does not offer an option to the captured guide rod assembly on his Gen 5 Rowdy is having a hard time finding a way to change the spring

Edited by race1911

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4 hours ago, pskys2 said:

allowed for IPSC

Correct not legal.  Or else I wouldn't have to ask the question 

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For those trying to help, or just understand what we're talking about here is a page from the IPSC rule book with the 2019 changes in red.

1. It is legal for me to change a spring inside the gun when it currently was not before.

2. Changing the guide rod to an aftermarket one is not listed as an acceptable change.

3. On a gen5 Glock, which while visually similar to a gen4 is different, the guide rod and recoil springs are an assembly and riveted together.

 

Which leads to the whole conundrum. If I want to make a legal recoil spring change I end up also doing a seemingly illegal guide rod change due to this generation of Glock design.  Also, does the word "assemblies", which is pluralized in 18.4 refer to BOTH triggers and and springs. If that means trigger assemblies aanndd spring assemblies then one could change to an aftermarket recoil system.

ipsnip.JPG

Edited by rowdyb

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ahhh...you sound correct Rowdy, I never thought of 18.4 like that before..... now that you mention it the way it is written without a comma after springs would make "spring asemblies" perfectly legal (ie aftermarket springs and guide rods).....hopefully Schutzenmeister will get an appropriate answer and clear all of this up

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