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Accuracy with handguns, most important factors

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Hi all. I don't know if this was asked before, as intended. I don't even know how to search for it.

 

My question is, how would you rate the following factors, to have accuracy when using handguns?

 

Let's say the target is at 30 yards, 8 inches. 

 

Breath

Hands/arms movement

Grip

Ammunition

Trigger pull

Sights

 

Discuss, feel free to say whatever comes in mind about this topic. 

I'm not sure a proper trigger pull is enough to be accurate.

 

 

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Hi all. I don't know if this was asked before, as intended. I don't even know how to search for it.

 

My question is, how would you rate the following factors, to have accuracy when using handguns?

 

Let's say the target is at 30 yards, 8 inches. 

 

Breath

Hands/arms movement

Grip

Ammunition

Trigger pull

Sights

 

Discuss, feel free to say whatever comes in mind about this topic. 

I'm not sure a proper trigger pull is enough to be accurate.

 

 

Stance (will help you passively with recoil particularly bringing gun back to where it started). Slightly bent knees, hips forward, shoulders over toes, weight mostly on the balls of the feet)

 

perfect grip- both wrists locked, weak hand fingers crushing gun, strong hand fingers relaxed to pull trigger without moving gun.

 

perfect sight picture- equal height & equal light on every shot. Top of front post equal with top of both rear posts.

 

personally, I would be prepping the trigger on all of those shots so there's no extra sight movement on ignition because of me having a pre-ignition push or flinch.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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If you are talking slow fire, correct sight picture  and pulling the trigger without  upsetting the sight is really all that  matters. An 8" target at 30 is not precision, so a decent sight picture and trigger control is all it really takes. I guess you need ammo that doesn't completely blow, but the only  time i had ammo that wouldn't make that shot, the bullets were undersized 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RJH said:

If you are talking slow fire, correct sight picture  and pulling the trigger without  upsetting the sight is really all that  matters. An 8" target at 30 is not precision, so a decent sight picture and trigger control is all it really takes. 

 

Yup, that is about all it takes to hit an 8" target at 30 yards. 

 

If you have problem hitting it, work on your trigger pull because it is the most important factor in accurate pistol shooting. You can have a super accurate gun, proper stance, correct aiming, but you ain't gonna hit it if you yank the trigger and dip the gun right before it goes bang (called Flinching).

 

The best way to learn the proper trigger pull is with a revolver, load 2 live rounds randomly along with 4 spent shells, keep the sight on target and make sure it doesn't dip on an empty shell, and try not to blink or you won't see it.

 

.

Edited by Vmax606

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The gun is most important - most guns from the factory will be seriously

challenged to hit that target.

 

Then, the ammo - a real accurate gun with poor ammo will be a problem.

 

Then, the trigger pull - 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 - most guns from the factory will be seriously

challenged to hit that target.

 

 

REALLY ????

 

How much do you want to bet that I can hit an 8" gong at 30 yards with just about any decent guns, right out of the box after sighting it in ? (.22 Jenning excluded)

 

.

Edited by Vmax606

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25 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

The gun is most important - most guns from the factory will be seriously

challenged to hit that target.

 

Then, the ammo - a real accurate gun with poor ammo will be a problem.

 

Then, the trigger pull - 

 

Gonna have to disagree with....................................................................................................................basically everything 

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Gonna have to disagree with....................................................................................................................basically everything 


Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, xdf3 said:

Hi all. I don't know if this was asked before, as intended. I don't even know how to search for it.

 

My question is, how would you rate the following factors, to have accuracy when using handguns?

 

Let's say the target is at 30 yards, 8 inches. 

 

Breath

Hands/arms movement

Grip

Ammunition

Trigger pull

Sights

 

Discuss, feel free to say whatever comes in mind about this topic. 

I'm not sure a proper trigger pull is enough to be accurate.

 

 

Not moving the gun as you press the trigger, however it is you make that happen.  Breathe heavily.  Do a River Dance.  Wobble your knees.  Wiggle your toes.  Slap the trigger.  All fine as long as the gun does not move during trigger press.

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37 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

The gun is most important - most guns from the factory will be seriously

challenged to hit that target.

 

Then, the ammo - a real accurate gun with poor ammo will be a problem.

 

Then, the trigger pull - 

You know better, Jack my fine gentleman.  It's us, not the guns.

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A long, long time ago, in a galaxy - no, wait, that's a different story.

 

A long time ago I spent a weekend with Ross Seyfried.  One of the exercises he had us do was to shoot an offhand group at 25 yards focusing very carefully on the sight picture.  Once that was done, he had us do another group, but putting all our concentration on the trigger.

 

For me, focusing on the trigger had far better results than the careful sight picture.

 

So I will say trigger is vital to accuracy - again -- at least for me.

 

Guy

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16 hours ago, GunBugBit said:

You know better, Jack my fine gentleman.  It's us, not the guns.

 

Tell that to the ransom rest.

 

I'm with Jack on this.

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36 minutes ago, CSEMARTIN said:

 

Tell that to the ransom rest.

 

I'm with Jack on this.

 

Actually curious here, have you ransom rested many guns that won't hold an 8" plate at 30 yards?  IDK that i have ever shot one off hand that was that bad, but maybe i have been lucky.  

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Actually curious here, have you ransom rested many guns that won't hold an 8" plate at 30 yards?  IDK that i have ever shot one off hand that was that bad, but maybe i have been lucky.  
Never used a Ransom rest, but some of the M&Ps I've test fired wouldn't allow much wobble on that plate.

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9 minutes ago, PatJones said:
54 minutes ago, RJH said:
 
Actually curious here, have you ransom rested many guns that won't hold an 8" plate at 30 yards?  IDK that i have ever shot one off hand that was that bad, but maybe i have been lucky.  

Never used a Ransom rest, but some of the M&Ps I've test fired wouldn't allow much wobble on that plate.

 

I had heard that about the early M&Ps, but have shot those very little.  

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On 5/23/2019 at 7:24 AM, xdf3 said:

I will rank these numerically in my opinion of priority order 

 

2 Breath

2 Hands/arms movement

2 Grip

1 Ammunition

1 Trigger pull

1 Sights

 

Adding & ranking one more thing

2 Stance

 

Just my opinion but basically what gunbugbit said I agree, doesnt matter what youre doing as long as you dont move the gun while firing but I will add you do need to have sights on target & decent ammo.  Everything else on the list will just help you with follow up shots.

 

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2 hours ago, RJH said:

 

Actually curious here, have you ransom rested many guns that won't hold an 8" plate at 30 yards?  IDK that i have ever shot one off hand that was that bad, but maybe i have been lucky.  

 

It's us, not the guns was the quote I was referencing.  The gun absolutely plays a factor in accuracy.  Let's say your sights happen to be lined up on the edge of the plate, will the round hit?  An accurate gun will still hit the plate.  I'm not convinced a production gun would hit the target in my made up scenario.

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CSEMARTIN, I know some guns are mechanically much more accurate than others.  I think no one here would debate that.

 

I firmly believe, though, that we fallible humans introduce much more inconsistency into the accuracy picture than the guns do.  Most of us shoot guns that mechanically vary by less than 3 inches at the longest distances we shoot in our matches.  Yes that's enough to give us misses on rare occasions but almost all misses we see on the competition range are human error.

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Posted (edited)

At first u need a gun that doesnt shoot low left!  ;) 

 

Quote

The gun is most important - most guns from the factory will be seriously

challenged to hit that target.

 

Then, the ammo - a real accurate gun with poor ammo will be a problem.

 

 

Edited by bimmer1980

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Trigger pull, trigger pull, trigger pull.

Did I mention that I think that trigger pull is important? 😁🙁

Seriously though, if all other factors are perfect, but the trigger pull is sub-par, the hits will be bad. If all factors are sub-par, but trigger pull is perfect, results will still be quite acceptable.

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If your gun can't shoot an 8" group at 30 yards, you need to put some sights on it.

 

Sight alignment and trigger pull are the most important. As another poster has already said, if it's slowfire precision, then that's all you need. Then find a comfortable stance and grip that minimises any of the natural movement you will have as a living breathing human being.

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1) Trigger press/pull (let's not get into it). 

2) - 10) Everything else. 

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We shot a classifier the week before merel’s standards 99-63. The middle target is at 35yds and I had 11 out of 12 shots on it, but they were all low.

When I go out to the range each week for practice I start off by shooting groups. Usually max is 25yds, but I wanted to see what I could do at 35yds. Here the result of 5 shots with my limited gun shooting .40

ADCC4145-F032-4DB9-B8C6-E9F45E511180.jpeg

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23 hours ago, PatJones said:

Never used a Ransom rest, but some of the M&Ps I've test fired wouldn't allow much wobble on that plate.

Early M&Ps in 9mm had accuracy issues (vertical stringing due to early unlocking). S&W refused to fix (or even admit) their problems long enough for Apex to make a business out of it.

 

With Apex barrel, M&P is capable of 1" average five shot groups at 25 yards (from the rest), 3" offhand (in my hands, but there are people who can do better). I saw 6" or even 8" from factory barrels, in person, not rumors on the internet.

 

With M&P aside, average modern factory pistol with factory ammo should have about 2" average five shot group size at 25 yards supported, or about 4" to 5" offhand.

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I agree that it's a very rare factory pistol or revolver that won't hold an 8-inch plate at 30 yards with virtually any factory round or properly assembled handload, and that gun should be sent back.

Every one of the factors mentioned in the OP are important. I would rate a consistent grip, proper sight picture, and proper trigger press as the most important factors and all with the same level of importance. Grips that fit your hand, a smooth and light trigger, and decent sights all help. Stance is a factor in recoil control, and also in allowing you a stable enough platform to properly execute those three key factors. 

There is no one key factor. The whole system has to work together.

 

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