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thehudge

165gr 9mm and my Dillon.

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Hello all, I have a Dillon square deal B and am trying to load xtreme 165gr round nose bullets. 

The problem is, I am getting crazy swings in my seating depths.  I have it set for a 1.150 oal and am getting that if I load one at a time but once I get all four stages going it starts seating from 1.145 to 1.160.  I have been reloading with this reloader for years and many thousands of rounds.

I really want this bullet to work but am stumped.  Any help would be appreciated.     

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Umm, yeah.

Some details and pictures would help with the diagnosis...

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Were you using RN's before, or JHP's ?

 

You might have the wrong seating rod in there ???

 

Do you have the entire SDB full with all four stations loaded, or just one ?

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Are you using mixed brass?  Those bullets are so long and have to be seated so deep in the case that variations in case wall thickness and taper from brand to brand could be causing the inconsistency.  

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Are you using mixed brass?  Those bullets are so long and have to be seated so deep in the case that variations in case wall thickness and taper from brand to brand could be causing the inconsistency.  


This

Gets ya every time. I get .010 variations when loading 147gr round nose plated with mixed brass. You’ll make yourself crazy trying to fix it. Only way is to sort brass. No thank you.


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Did you set your oal with only one round in the Dillon. Or did you set it with all stations full.

 

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I see more variation with mixed brass. Some feel harder than others and I can tell when sizing and bullet seating those. Fed, rem, win, g.f.l., no real problems. Geco, cbc, s&b all feel harder to seat and size resulting in different OALs.

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14 hours ago, SteelCityShooter said:

Are you using mixed brass?  Those bullets are so long and have to be seated so deep in the case that variations in case wall thickness and taper from brand to brand could be causing the inconsistency.  

Agreed

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You said “I really want this bullet to work” so what’s not working? Is this affecting your accuracy, function or just messing with you mind? I run the exact same set up. Dillon 650 all factory dies with the exception of a horanady neck expander. I find the bullet sits better before seating with that die. 165 xtreme mixed brass, win primers and 3.8 gr TG. Set to COL of 1.157. My experience with this shows a range of 1.149 to 1.17. But every one feeds and goes bang just like the last. I run them primarily out of my STI but have also shot them in my G34 and my PSA PCC. Never any issues.

So unless you are have issues with feeding or some really bad accuracy just feed the Blue machine and fire them off.


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Posted (edited)

I guess its just messing with my mind.  They run but I like to be more precise. 

And yes, brass does make a big difference.  

 

Thanks

Edited by thehudge

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I’ve gone as far as to verify that if I set my COAL off of the “foreign” brass (S&B, ect) then my rounds with domestic brass will be shorter, and vice versa. And I do set my COAL with all stations full.

 

 

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On 5/22/2019 at 7:58 AM, Frank705 said:

You said “I really want this bullet to work” so what’s not working? Is this affecting your accuracy, function or just messing with you mind? I run the exact same set up. Dillon 650 all factory dies with the exception of a horanady neck expander. I find the bullet sits better before seating with that die. 165 xtreme mixed brass, win primers and 3.8 gr TG. Set to COL of 1.157. My experience with this shows a range of 1.149 to 1.17. But every one feeds and goes bang just like the last. I run them primarily out of my STI but have also shot them in my G34 and my PSA PCC. Never any issues.

So unless you are have issues with feeding or some really bad accuracy just feed the Blue machine and fire them off.


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Did you mean 2.8gr of titegroup? 3.8gr sounds hot  for 160’s. Curious what your power factor is. 

 

Thanks!

 

Ethan 

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A while ago one of my shooting buddies wanted to go that route. 165s for his action shooting game of choice.  So we loaded a few hundred for test at the range.

That was the absolute longest I've ever been at the press to make a batch of 9mm.  Exactly as the OP mentioned. OAL that was just all over the place.

It settled down when we fed the press with new Starline - straight from the box.  Aside from the slight stick at the power funnel that is...

 

9mm brass is like a box of chocolates.... FED and WIN would be about the only thing I try to load the 165s with.   

(we ultimately abandoned that project for a number of reasons)

 

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10 minutes ago, Eman said:

Did you mean 2.8gr of titegroup? 3.8gr sounds hot  for 160’s. Curious what your power factor is. 

 

Thanks!

 

Ethan 

I shot 160s all last year at 3.0 grains of titegroup and it put me at a 137 power factor out of my g34. They shot well but always seemed low for my point of aim. I now shoot145s.

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Did you mean 2.8gr of titegroup? 3.8gr sounds hot  for 160’s. Curious what your power factor is. 
 
Thanks!
 
Ethan 

Sorry yes 2.8 Tightgroup.


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Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2019 at 7:56 AM, SteelCityShooter said:

Are you using mixed brass?  Those bullets are so long and have to be seated so deep in the case that variations in case wall thickness and taper from brand to brand could be causing the inconsistency.  

 

Yup, this is your problem - internal case taper varies with different brands of brass. If you force that bullet into the cases with more taper and then use something like a Lee factory crimp die, you'll find that the bullet base gets swaged down (a bad thing) and some of them will even push back out of the case. I load some 170gr and 180gr subsonic 9mm bullets of my own design and ran into the same issues.

 

The solution if you want to use that bullet at that length is to sort brass and only use FC headstamp - FC has more straight wall and the taper is deeper in the case so it handles the long bullets OK. Win, Blazer, and S&B all give problems every time. 

 

The other solution is to seat to a long enough OAL that you don't run into the case taper on any brass, but your barrel has to be throated for it and the mags need to accomodate the long OAL. 

Edited by Yondering

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You are correct.  After loading a thousand rounds with mixed brass, FC is the most consistent brass out of the bunch.  

I started separating based on head stamp..........That did not go well. So I guess Ill deal with it for now and if I ever make it to an Area Match I will use all FC head stamped brass for greater constancy.  

 

Thanks to all. 

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On 5/31/2019 at 5:43 PM, Yondering said:

The solution if you want to use that bullet at that length is to sort brass and only use FC headstamp - FC has more straight wall and the taper is deeper in the case so it handles the long bullets OK. Win, Blazer, and S&B all give problems every time. 

 

Using Federal brass is the right answer. Loading 165's is why I started sorting brass by headstamp. The brass you absolutely want to avoid is anything that's stepped on the inside, like FM, Ammoland, IMT and the like. A friend had case separation with 147's and stepped brass. It won't get better with 165's...

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I think Yondering has the best answer. Load longer, throat barrel if necessary to achieve it, and hope your magazine is long enough.

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I'm loading my second batch of 3,000 bullets.  Other than some variation in OAL they look good and function great, also I do discard the stepped brass

I went with 10lb recoil springs in both the G34 gen5 and the P320rx, the combination is amazing. 

 

Thanks for all the input.   

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