A Couple Questions....

[Muddawg900]

Hello Folks,

 

To start, I do reload and have for a couple years so I'm not a total newb, but not an expert by any means. This is a bit of a mixed discussion through a couple different questions.

 

First: Trying to decide between staying in Limited and upgrading my gun or moving to Open. Currently shoot Limited with a Glock 34 Gen 3 but looking for a 2011 as an upgrade. I recently shot myself in the foot (not literally) and was able to shoot an Open gun in 9 major. Boy oh boy that was a mistake!! I had far too much fun doing so, but don't have the slightest clue on open guns in the way of reloading. My dilemma is whether or not to stick with Limited or jump to Open and expand my horizons. Reasons on why or why not to switch?

 

Second: If I jump to Open, I've seen that coated bullets aren't super great because the comp vaporizes the coating and builds up in the ports. A friend recommended Montana Gold bullets specifically. I'm only familiar with the name, as it is renowned in the sport, but I don't have much knowledge on them. What makes them so great over any other brand?

 

Please feel free to school me, as I'm always looking for more information on loading and gun knowledge! Thank you for your input and time!

 

-Muddawg

[Dutchman195]

Your division your call. The sport def has been going the way of 9mm major for Open. Statistically based on winners vs losers I see at majors, a 2011 gives you a better shot at the podium. A 34 in Limited....pass, I would get a 35. Major PF dominates Lim and Open. Stepped brass in 9mm major open will cause a problem. 

 

Bullet Question, Yes coated BBs will clog up ports and the ports will rip the coating off bullets. Also I think most coatings top out 1400ish FPS. If you shoot a 124 at the absolute minimum PF, you need it to go 1330 FPS. Or shoot a comped gun with no ports (not sure, I dont shoot open)? 

 

Montana Gold, Xtreme, Zero, Frontier, Precision Delta, Hornady HAP, etc any plated or jacketed bullet will be fine. 

 

Reloading is simple, all pistol calibers are the same in my eyes. Powder and bullet combo will give you the charge weight. Ladder load to start for safety as you'll probably be outside/above Mfg Spec will loading 9mm major. Test things yourself, and dont always believe people on the internet when your conducting a controlled explosion next to your hand.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Dutchman195

[Postal Bob]

As for bullets, many open shooters I know shoot coated bullets, Ibejiheads specifically. Montana Gold bullets, besides being very consistant, have a harder jacket than other jacketed bullets. This leads to way less fouling in the gun, but also means the need to increase the powder charge to compensate for the harder, and therefore slower bullet.

 

 

[Dutchman195]

1 minute ago, Postal Bob said:

As for bullets, many open shooters I know shoot coated bullets, Ibejiheads specifically. Montana Gold bullets, besides being very consistant, have a harder jacket than other jacketed bullets. This leads to way less fouling in the gun, but also means the need to increase the powder charge to compensate for the harder, and therefore slower bullet.

 

 

For my knowledge, is that ibiji in a ported and comped gun or just comped? I would imagine the comp has nothing to do with a coated bullet, the ports would. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

1.  Why switch to OPEN ?    You answered that yourself - " I had far too much fun ".

 

2.  Loading 9mm Major is easier than loading .40 Major, IMHO.   There is no magic to MG -

      I used them for years, and they're great bullets, but the PD's are just as good, but cheaper.    

[Mikeski]

If you liked shooting open then by all means have at it. Going 9 major or 38sc is going to be a personal choice. Me I shoot 38sc. I don't want to deal with sorting headstamps or overcharging a round. I have fired both and for me I like the 38sc. If you decide to stick with Limited I agree with Dutchman go up to a Glock 35 or a 2011 in 40. I feel that shooting Minor hurts in Limited.  Just be cautious. I started this same way as well. Started with a 34 in production, moved to a 35 for limited cause I hated reloading. Then I got a 2011 cause I felt that was the next step and then into open. 

 

I have always used Precision Deltas with out any issues in my open gun. Most of the open shooters around here use jacketed rounds instead of coasted. 

[Muddawg900]

Thank you guys for your replies! The G34 is my "starter" gun if you will. I'm 100% looking at moving into a 2011. Just not yet sure if that's gonna be an open or ltd gun. My wife will likely take over the 34. My goal is to move into something that will give me the most room for growth, so major PF will definitely be happening. 

 

I haven't actually shot a match in Open yet. A fellow shooter was kind enough to let me put a couple mags through his 9major open gun after a match. Definitely wasn't ready for what was coming! 

 

As for loading, if DO go Open, I'll probably stick to 9mm as that makes things easier since I'm already loaded out with more brass than I have 40. And my wife will continue to shoot 9 minor (she doesn't like the 40 snap). Stepped brass (Maxxtech in particular comes to mind) doesn't work for me anyways. I toss that stuff to a recycle bin since they can't be resized. 

[Joe4d]

ever thought of carry optics ? u get a dot, you get full capacity, but production style gun and ammo.

[Muddawg900]

I thought about it, but I feel like open would be more fun. The other thing I thought about is: how much does open take away from building and utilizing actual shooting discipline? Like Ltd, I feel like you have to work and try a little harder than open. Maybe it's because of all the old guys that have been shooting longer than I've been alive make it look easy? 

[Sarge]

20 minutes ago, Muddawg900 said:

I thought about it, but I feel like open would be more fun. The other thing I thought about is: how much does open take away from building and utilizing actual shooting discipline? Like Ltd, I feel like you have to work and try a little harder than open. Maybe it's because of all the old guys that have been shooting longer than I've been alive make it look easy? 

I’m an old guy who shoots Open and it’s anything but easy. The skill required to keep advancing in Open is exponential compared to other Divisions. Everybody but the oldest of the old worn out Open shooters can be quite fast so you have to work harder to keep up.

[Muddawg900]

6 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I’m an old guy who shoots Open and it’s anything but easy. The skill required to keep advancing in Open is exponential compared to other Divisions. Everybody but the oldest of the old worn out Open shooters can be quite fast so you have to work harder to keep up.

Thanks Sarge! That comforts me a little. I watched a video of a production shooter I know and his stages and movements were VERY technical and deliberate and most open shooters seem very fast and not quite as technical. Granted, that may just be a difference between the two divisions due to ammo capacities.

[Smithcity]

Stick with shooting what you have, after 6 months to a year of the sport you will have a much better understanding of the sport, the gear, and the guns. At that point you will know if you want to keep shooting the sport and if you choose to do so you will have a better idea of what high quality gear to get. Lots of people shoot a match or two,  decide to go all in, and regret it 6months later when they stop shooting or realize they dont really like what they bought once they better understand whats out there and what works for them. 

[HesedTech]

19 minutes ago, Muddawg900 said:

Thanks Sarge! That comforts me a little. I watched a video of a production shooter I know and his stages and movements were VERY technical and deliberate and most open shooters seem very fast and not quite as technical. Granted, that may just be a difference between the two divisions due to ammo capacities.

 

What’s different?

 

1. Capacities 

2. Comp

3. PF

4. Dot

5. Holster and Mags

6. Trigger

7. Equipment $$$

8. Most open guns are far sexier than a Glock 34

 

What is the same is, all the divisions require practice and training to achieve the highest levels of the sport.

[Muddawg900]

47 minutes ago, Smithcity said:

Stick with shooting what you have, after 6 months to a year of the sport you will have a much better understanding of the sport, the gear, and the guns. At that point you will know if you want to keep shooting the sport and if you choose to do so you will have a better idea of what high quality gear to get. Lots of people shoot a match or two,  decide to go all in, and regret it 6months later when they stop shooting or realize they dont really like what they bought once they better understand whats out there and what works for them. 

I've been shooting local matches for about a year and a half now. Competition shooting has ALWAYS been a dream of mine. I know for a fact I'll continue this as long as there's a match wherever I move to (active duty). I've even taken the RO course too. I also got into reloading to support the hobby. So I'm definitely in the sport. Once I come home from deployment, I'm intending to really put more time in and build myself in the game.

[Muddawg900]

30 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

 

What’s different?

 

1. Capacities 

2. Comp

3. PF

4. Dot

5. Holster and Mags

6. Trigger

7. Equipment $$$

8. Most open guns are far sexier than a Glock 34

 

What is the same is, all the divisions require practice and training to achieve the highest levels of the sport.

This guy was shooting a CZ shadow 2 that's probably been worked over. He's already sponsored and just graduated highschool, so he's got the time in for sure. I've lackadaisically trained because I was still trying to get a feel for the sport, but now it's time to up my game and train to become more proficient. Hopefully some classes in the future too.

[Jamese35]

Open is a blast even tho I've only shot it three times or so. As for the bullets my teammate is running a cz sp01 that he built to open and he is shooting major 9 with 115 grain DG bullets with out and buildup issues. His gun runs fast, flat, and clean. 

 This is just the example that I have messed with and it may very with what others have noticed. 

 I shoot limited minor and soon to be limited major but plan to take open up in the future. 

[Muddawg900]

Thank you all for your input on this thread. I think I've decided to pull the trigger and go to an open 9major gun. Now to go hunting.... Looking forward to a new style. Limited isn't totally out of my picture yet, as I have some extra plans for that down the road. 

 

On that note, any advice on Open 2011's and loading 9major is greatly appreciated and welcomed! 

[Sarge]

26 minutes ago, Muddawg900 said:

, any advice on Open 2011's and loading 9major is greatly appreciated and welcomed! 

Call Matt Cheely at  ccgunworks.com for a fantastic Open gun build.

 9MAJOR isn’t voodoo even though some swear it is. Just use sound reloading practices and understand you are on the ragged edge and you’ll be fine.

Currently running 7.9 AutoComp with 115 Precision Delta JHP at about 1.168. 

[Muddawg900]

33 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Call Matt Cheely at  ccgunworks.com for a fantastic Open gun build.

 9MAJOR isn’t voodoo even though some swear it is. Just use sound reloading practices and understand you are on the ragged edge and you’ll be fine.

Currently running 7.9 AutoComp with 115 Precision Delta JHP at about 1.168. 

Unfortunately I can't build a gun at this time, so I'm looking for used guns. I do reload, so I'm reasonably familiar with how bad it can go quickly. As with all things, ladder testing will be first. Do you run small magnum pistol primers? Or is a small pistol primer enough? Thank you for your load data, I'll certainly be experimenting with a couple powders.

[Sarge]

9 hours ago, Muddawg900 said:

Unfortunately I can't build a gun at this time, so I'm looking for used guns. I do reload, so I'm reasonably familiar with how bad it can go quickly. As with all things, ladder testing will be first. Do you run small magnum pistol primers? Or is a small pistol primer enough? Thank you for your load data, I'll certainly be experimenting with a couple powders.

You can find good used guns on here if you keep an eye out. Look for a used Cheely. My point with 9 MAJOR is you are already off the charts with most loads we use. If you overcharge a minor load or even a book load you get a hotter/louder load. If you overcharge an already supercharged load the outcome will most likely be different, in a bad way.

 I use Federal small rifle. But have had no problems with CCI small pistol. Many, dare I say, most open shooters use rifle primers.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you have not reloaded 9mm Major before, I suggest starting low (PF 155 or so) and work up Slowly

with a chronograph.  Also suggest starting with a 124 gr JHP bullet @ 1.160".

[Muddawg900]

Sarge:

I definitely have been watching the classifieds on here, practiscore and gun broker. I'll definitely be looking for some load data and starting low to work my way up. Definitely understand that it's a super hot charge for a 9mm, so I'll certainly ladder load my way up. I'll definitely play around with primers and loads. Lots of testing to come!

 

Hi-Power Jack:

Chrono will be soon for sure, and I'll see about getting some sample packs of different weight and profile bullets. Seems like most run 115s or 124s? I'd assume 147s move too slow for a comped gun?

[Hi-Power Jack]

11 hours ago, Muddawg900 said:

 Seems like most run 115s or 124s? I'd assume 147s move too slow for a comped gun?

 

The 115's give the best comp effect since you're using lots of powder so you have plenty of gas.

 

But, the 115's require a full case of powder - so many of us take a slight reduction in effectiveness

and use 124's.

 

I've never used a 147 major, but have heard it can be done, and it is gentle - try it and see what you think.    

[Muddawg900]

3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I've never used a 147 major, but have heard it can be done, and it is gentle - try it and see what you think.    

I've been reading my fool head off on this forum trying to learn as much as I can before I take this dive. I'll definitely be experimenting with small lots of different weight bullets, powders and maybe primers. From my reading so far, it seems that 124s run a smidge less snappy but still provide enough gas for the comp. Seems to be the majority ruling. Definitely have a ton of experimenting to do to find a solid load.