Workout Programs for Shooting

[MattBaker5745]

As a personal trainer and CrossFit coach with 5+ years of experience, I’m wondering what y’all currently do for your workout routines. If y’all need any type of programming or have any questions about starting a workout program, shoot away.

[TonytheTiger]

 Tabata here. Not specifically for shooting but it can't hurt. Probably a 60/40 split between cardio and core stuff (short distance suicide sprints, burpees, mountian climbers, kettlebell stuff etc.) and strength (overhead press squats, pushups, various dumbell workouts etc.)

I mix it up and change my routine regularly to stay interested and avoid plateaus.

[Smithcity]

Most people in this sport would benefit from one or both of the following:

1. Overweight and need to slim down.

2. Put some muscle on to aid in explosive movements.

 

If you look at many of the top shooters, they typically arent grossly overweight nor are they heavily built, rather they are slim to moderately muscular. 

 

In short,  most of us need to put the carbs down, get our rear on the elliptical,  and do a semblance of resistance training. That's really about it. Enough that your body isnt in your way, and hopefully aids in some efficient foot work. "Uspsa fitness" isnt about moving quicker,  its more about enabling yourself to shoot sooner.

[Will_M]

Doing the basic compound movements: Squats, deadlifts, bench press, and overhead press would help just about everyone. 

 

Carbs are not the enemy. They provide quick fuel to the body which is important during a 10 hour day at a major match. 

 

Developing overall fitness with weight training creates a huge difference in endurance. Guys and girls who are out of shape will have much worse performance at the last few stages of the day vs someone who has some physical training.

 

Cardio sucks. Just lift weights faster.

[Will_M]

On 5/16/2019 at 11:07 AM, MattBaker5745 said:

As a personal trainer and CrossFit coach with 5+ years of experience, I’m wondering what y’all currently do for your workout routines. If y’all need any type of programming or have any questions about starting a workout program, shoot away.

At this point I'm mostly focusing on improving the big 4 lifts I mentioned above, but I've seen accessory lifts increase dramatically in that same time. 

 

Deadlifts with a standard grip as well as HEAVY shrugs with dumbbells can make your forearms scream. 

 

Based on the food I've seen eaten while we're all away at matches, the biggest improvement 99% of us could make is correcting our diets. 

 

Fork put-downs FTW

[bimmer1980]

Guys like Ben Stoeger doesn´t look pretty athletic to me. There are some, sure, but i don´t know if it is that important.

[Will_M]

2 hours ago, bimmer1980 said:

Guys like Ben Stoeger doesn´t look pretty athletic to me. There are some, sure, but i don´t know if it is that important.

Ok but what if Ben was more athletic? What if he was faster, stronger than he is now? Wouldn't that translate to even better results?

[bimmer1980]

44 minutes ago, Will_M said:

Ok but what if Ben was more athletic? What if he was faster, stronger than he is now? Wouldn't that translate to even better results?

Thats the question. I heard Ben say something like "It´s still the one that shoots the fastest and most accurate who wins"

 

Faster sounds good, but if you move faster you have to stop harder. Stopping harder can lead to slower or bads shots etc. I don´t think its that easy. If it would, the most athletic would stand out more from the rest of the pack. I don´t think they are. But hey, i´m really no expert, thats just my impression till now.

[Smithcity]

14 hours ago, bimmer1980 said:

Thats the question. I heard Ben say something like "It´s still the one that shoots the fastest and most accurate who wins"

 

Faster sounds good, but if you move faster you have to stop harder. Stopping harder can lead to slower or bads shots etc. I don´t think its that easy. If it would, the most athletic would stand out more from the rest of the pack. I don´t think they are. But hey, i´m really no expert, thats just my impression till now.

Shooting fast is important however most of our stages are movement not shooting. Moving "fast enough" is a requirement. The separation amongst the tiers of shooters are those that dont necessarily move faster but shoot sooner. That comes down to efficiency in body movement combined with operating the gun. Something that needs to be drilled. Not sure which exercise teaches that competency.

[bimmer1980]

17 minutes ago, Smithcity said:

Shooting fast is important however most of our stages are movement not shooting. Moving "fast enough" is a requirement. The separation amongst the tiers of shooters are those that dont necessarily move faster but shoot sooner. That comes down to efficiency in body movement combined with operating the gun. Something that needs to be drilled. Not sure which exercise teaches that competency.

That´s what i think too. You must be efficient first. Shoot sooner, leave sooner. Thats not done by fitness training. But there are stages where it would help for sure. There are also stages where you can see an overweight guy almost walking the stage and outtime and outpoint the athletic small sprinter.

Edited May 22, 2019 by bimmer1980

[Will_M]

But, all else equal, isn't the stronger/faster guy going to have a better time than the fat guy?

 

 

[CHA-LEE]

8 minutes ago, Will_M said:

But, all else equal, isn't the stronger/faster guy going to have a better time than the fat guy?

 

 

 

Absolutely. There is no getting around the fact that being lighter, stronger, and more flexible is an advantage.

[mattmd1]

34 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Absolutely. There is no getting around the fact that being lighter, stronger, and more flexible is an advantage.

 

I think that often when watching really out of shape people shoot, especially when they are talented. I lost 40 pounds in 2018, and am 70 pounds lighter than I was at my all-time high, and the difference in everything is amazing. Mentally, even.

 

My exercise routine these days is two 20 minute dogs walks daily, I'm on my feet walking at work about 3 hours a day, and I'm trying to shoot 3 matches a month minimum. And as close to zero sugar in my diet as possible. Zero alcohol. Not too fancy but it's working.

[blacklab2011]

All things equal guy who shoots fastest and most accurate wins.  Point I think Ben Stoeger was making is bigger gains will be made by working on shooting improvements, reloads, splits, transitions etc.

 

I definitely agree being in better shape helps match performance but isn't guaranteed to have huge impact in match results.

 

Me personally, I am working on cardio, weights, eliminating sugar.  This allows me to enjoy a long day at range vs. being in pain all day.  Enjoyment is through the roof, match performance....not so much.

[bimmer1980]

2 hours ago, Will_M said:

But, all else equal, isn't the stronger/faster guy going to have a better time than the fat guy?

 

 

Yes, all equal, it´s the stronger/faster and more flexible guy who wins.  But all equal has really to mean ALL equal.  

[CHA-LEE]

blacklab2011> I think you are looking at this from a perspective of doing Physical Fitness OR Shooting Skills Training, not both. If you choose to only do one then completely ignore the other then you are absolutely right. But I am yet to see a serious competition shooter who deploys an effective physical fitness program then completely ignores their shooting skills training. I also want to point out that being physically fit doesn't automatically translate to improved shooting/movement skills. I have seen plenty of physically fit shooters who look like they have two left feet when shooting stages because they have not learned or trained the proper movement methods needed to improve their stage performance. 

 

There is no denying the fact that if you had an out of shape shooter who understood and could deploy effective practical shooting movements during stage runs that they would be able to do the same process faster, stronger and with more endurance simply because they were in better physical shape.

 

I like to tell all of my students that the practical shooting sports is a Movement game with a little bit of Shooting involved. This is simply because the bulk of our score is based on our ability to move our bodies from one position to the next or move the gun between targets. The "Shooting" part of the stage run has value because we must hit what we are shooting at, but the time it takes to do that pales in comparison to the time it takes to move the gun to the next place so you can shoot again. 

[tha1000]

On 5/21/2019 at 2:14 PM, bimmer1980 said:

Guys like Ben Stoeger doesn´t look pretty athletic to me. There are some, sure, but i don´t know if it is that important.

 

Ben takes his physical fitness a lot more serious than he used to...  

[motosapiens]

On 5/21/2019 at 3:24 PM, Will_M said:

Ok but what if Ben was more athletic? What if he was faster, stronger than he is now? Wouldn't that translate to even better results?

Doubtful, because if that were a thing, you would see extremely fit guys being quicker between positions than less fit guys, but that doesn't actually happen. You don't have to be lean and have a high vo2 max to push off aggressively, take 2 steps and be shooting early.

 

Ben is kind of a pudgy soft guy, but he moves plenty fast for short distances. I'm pretty confident I could beat him at most any contest of endurance, yet he is considerably quicker than me between positions.

[motosapiens]

23 hours ago, Will_M said:

But, all else equal, isn't the stronger/faster guy going to have a better time than the fat guy?

 

 

 

if you're talking about grossly obese, yes, probably.

 

If you're talking about anywhere in the wide range of normal but not hugely obese shooters, I don't believe so. It has much more to do with the mental aspect of leaving aggressively as soon as possible (and shooting as soon as possible on entry) than it does with the raw physical ability to get from point a to point b quickly.

 

 

[GunBugBit]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 2:24 PM, Will_M said:

Ok but what if Ben was more athletic? What if he was faster, stronger than he is now? Wouldn't that translate to even better results?

How much better can one be than world and national champion?

[Will_M]

I can't believe that, on a website where we argue over 0.01 second advantages, you guys are debating whether or not being in better shape is helpful.

 

Matches are won and lost by that much. This isn't even a debate. Being stronger and faster would make everyone score better. 

[motosapiens]

11 minutes ago, Will_M said:

I can't believe that, on a website where we argue over 0.01 second advantages, you guys are debating whether or not being in better shape is helpful.

 

Matches are won and lost by that much. This isn't even a debate. Being stronger and faster would make everyone score better. 

That doesn't appear to be the case except in the grossest sense. It's pretty clear that being 10% more fit does not result in even a .01 second advantage.

 

It's probably an issue if one is in full-on couch potato status, but I've been a competitive athlete (track, cycling, enduro) all my life, so i don't know much about couch potatoes.

 

Pretty much everyone who is not in awful shape can get from a to b just about as quickly as anyone else. The real gains come not from moving more quickly, but from spending less time not shooting. This is pretty easy to see if you look at stage videos of top shooters. You can time yourself over the same position movements and you'll find (unless you have some kind of disability) that you can make the movements just as fast.

 

But don't let me discourage you.... I advise you to spend your time and effort on physical conditioning stuff and see where it gets you.

Edited May 23, 2019 by motosapiens

[Will_M]

Ok

[Hiroshi]

I’d already lost 30 lbs, now need to go gym and gain muscles, my goal is to be fit like JJ Racaza.

[RedlandsShooter]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:57 AM, bimmer1980 said:

are stages where it would help for sure. There are also stages where you can see an overweight guy almost walking the stage and outtime and outpoint the athletic small sprinter.

Edited May 22 by bimmer1980

Agreed, I experience this every week by being outshot by better shooters not more fit shooters.