I went ahead and got DQ'd today

[nickforney]

I am very new to uspsa.  I shot my first field match last month and a super classifier last weekend.  I was open this weekend and was hungry to get a match in so I got up before 5 to drive 3 and half hours away for a nice level 1.  In the truck I clearly had a bit of dummy juice because it showed nice and clear the second stage of the day.  I have many many things to work on as a shooter but I had never even considered this would be an issue.

The first stage went fine there was a big sweeping 170 degree transition early on and I was really worried about over extending or not paying attention to the 180.  I felt ok on the stage and there were other good shooters to watch and try to learn from.  I am still really new to the concept of gaming stages and watching people who are good at it still fascinates me.  

The second stage was a very close open, partial hard and head only hard cover target with 3, 2, 1 round engagement.  I thought there isn't much game here just shoot away.  I was the first shooter for the stage and stepped up confident.  I either didn't seat the mag completely or the mag release got pressed between make ready and t1.  I got off my first round and heard the dreaded hammer fall on either a bad primer or empty chamber.  I was kicking myself through the stage and on showing clear and hammer down I wanted to see the magazine right away.  Like a fool I bent over and scooped up the mag while the empty gun was still in hand.  Everyone was really nice and sympathetic but my day of shooting was over with about a minute of trigger time and 7 hours of driving.

I think back to the hundreds of iterations on the range that I would scoop up a round or magazine.  The countless trips to the clearing barrel in Iraq and Afghanistan  worried about getting the round scooped up.  Best believe Nick isn't going to be trying to catch a round or scoop a magazine with a dead gun in hand.  
The video of my shame.

 

[RJH]

Yep always holster up before you worry with other crap.  That mag will be on the ground in the same place after you get holstered.  This is why many people , myself included, like to say that ULSC is not a race, not that you were rushing, but it all ties together

[Hi-Power Jack]

56 minutes ago, nickforney said:

 Best believe Nick isn't going to be trying to catch a round or scoop a magazine with a dead gun in hand.  
 

Even bigger problem is   - you drop the gun -   do NOT try to "catch it midair" - let it fall - and then wait for the RO to pick it up for you.     

 

[JimWestbrook]

As another new competitor, I can imagine how you feel. This is something I can definitely see myself doing. In fact,  I'm so new (haven't shot my first match yet, only observed a couple) that I didn't even know this was a violation. Something I, will have to keep in mind.

[nickforney]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Even bigger problem is   - you drop the gun -   do NOT try to "catch it midair" - let it fall - and then wait for the RO to pick it up for you.   

Yes that was the disqualification.  I don't believe I have ever made a grab for a round leaving the chamber when I knew the RO was looking to show unloaded.  I was fixated on the magazine that had not fed.  I have seen video or other folks do that where they pop the round in the air during show clear but I will be robotic on unload until it is ironed into my brain.  Just a hard lesson.

 

 

58 minutes ago, JimWestbrook said:

As another new competitor, I can imagine how you feel. This is something I can definitely see myself doing. In fact,  I'm so new (haven't shot my first match yet, only observed a couple) that I didn't even know this was a violation. Something I, will have to keep in mind.

I always know I will make mistakes shooting.  I shot my first match really concentrating on slow and safe.  I had one guy remind me that this wasn't bullseye shooting.  I know I will be able to iron out many of my obvious flaws early on but I need to remind myself that many things can be slow and steady and that what ever adrenaline dump I get when the buzzer sounds it needs to simmer down and stay between the lines.

[Flatland Shooter]

I watched the video and didn't see what appeared to be a dropped gun.  Was that the reason for the DQ or did you sweep your left hand when you picked up the magazine?

 

Thanks.

[DKorn]

29 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

I watched the video and didn't see what appeared to be a dropped gun.  Was that the reason for the DQ or did you sweep your left hand when you picked up the magazine?

 

Thanks.

 

It sounds like the RO says something about sweeping. Looks to me like he swept his hand. 

[broadside72]

 
It sounds like the RO says something about sweeping. Looks to me like he swept his hand. 

Only thing I could see was possible sweep of his other hand.

[ima45dv8]

Nick,  

Sweeping your off-hand with a muzzle is a bad thing and this time, it only resulted in an injury to your pride.

All in all, a good result.

 

You did, however, demonstrate admirable adult-ness in how you took ownership of the error.

Come back and play again another day. Everybody still loves you and only want you to go home intact.

[ima45dv8]

I had the sound off so I didn't hear the RO, but I'm pretty sure it was a sweep of the left hand.

At least, that's what I saw.

[Flatland Shooter]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 

It sounds like the RO says something about sweeping. Looks to me like he swept his hand. 

 

I could not make out what the RO said (blame it on old ears and years of loud noises) but looked like possible sweeping his left hand.  The dropped gun comments caused a bit of confusion.

 

Thanks.

 

[Joe4d]

think that was a typo, Hipower Jack maybe meant to tell shooter to drop the round.  As in it looked like the shooter was also trying to catch the round on ULSC

[DKorn]

11 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

think that was a typo, Hipower Jack maybe meant to tell shooter to drop the round.  As in it looked like the shooter was also trying to catch the round on ULSC

 

I think he might’ve been pointing out another potential error that a new person could make that could have even more dangerous consequences. 

[nickforney]

I misunderstood hipower jack.  I thought he meant I dropped the muzzle.  I suppose I wouldn't have been DQ'd had a kept the muzzle out and away but the reality is there was no reason at all to have the gun out at that point.  As was mentioned the mag was still gonna be there after holstering and I would have the rest of the stage pasting to wonder about why it didn't seat correctly rather than the drive home to think about holstering.  

I generally prefer to learn from other peoples mistakes... Would have been nice if someone else had done it rather than me.

[bimmer1980]

No big deal in my eyes. It wasn´t unsafe. The gun was unloaded. Heads up, next time you just do what the RO tells you and you are fine.

[MemphisMechanic]

15 minutes ago, bimmer1980 said:

No big deal in my eyes. It wasn´t unsafe. The gun was unloaded. Heads up, next time you just do what the RO tells you and you are fine.

 

The gun is always loaded when it comes to whether or not it’s okay to point it at human flesh.  

 

If you bend over, keep the strong hand pointed at the berm. You’d be pointing it nearly straight up in the air over your head if you were upright. Don’t swing the muzzle down.

 

Another little tidbit:

 

When you unload and show clear, index the gun on the back berm and pull the trigger on an empty chamber. Don’t make it go CLICK casually aimed wherever - usually down by your feet or pointed at the wall right in front of you. If the RO and the shooter both somehow missed a round still present in the chamber, that step is your final check before holstering. Where do you want that bullet to go? Definitely not into something right in front of you.

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

I think he might’ve been pointing out another potential error that a new person could make that could have even more dangerous consequences. 

 

   Sweeping your left hand, with an unloaded gun, is bad enough, 

 

BUT, Much Worse to try to catch a falling gun.

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

   Sweeping your left hand, with an unloaded gun, is bad enough, 

 

BUT, Much Worse to try to catch a falling gun.

 

Sweeping is merely a DQ.

 

More than one person has lost their life snatching at a falling gun through the triggerguard on it’s way down.

 

Handguns are drop-safe. Keep your hands back like it’s a poisonous snake on it’s way down and let it go.

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[jschweg]

Yup, did the same thing on my second match. I was about to bend over to grab my mag with gun still in hand, but the RO sensed what I was about to do and gave me a sharp warning before I did it. He probably could have DQ'd me, but I guess he was feeling generous

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[MemphisMechanic]

11 minutes ago, jschweg said:

the RO sensed what I was about to do and gave me a sharp warning before I did it. He probably could have DQ'd me, but I guess he was feeling generous

 

The ROs job is to keep everyone in that bay safe. It’s safer to avoid safety infractions, than to punish after they’ve occurred.

 

Most of us who RO try very hard to not have to DQ someone - until there’s no alternative.

 

 I’ve yelled “STOP!” and then told the wide-eyed novice to “holster before bending over” on many occasions. Same with “MUZZLE!” when a new guy’s eyes shift toward an uprange target and you know he’s about to swing past the 180.

 

It’s common practice. Not for veteran shooters, but most definitely for new ones.

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[mlmiller1]

It is not against the rules to bend over & pick up the mag but it is opening the door to several possible DQ offenses.  Just follow the r.o. commands & then after " range is clear" pick up mags or look at targets or scratch what itches but HOLSTER that gun as you follow his commands.  Turning your body square with  & Pointing at the back berm is always a good idea during ULSC COMMANDS.  Ive seen so many folks come soooo close to breaking the 180 holstering their pistol while turned towards the last target in a stage.  After youre done shooting, turn face downrange & follow range commands.

[bimmer1980]

The DQ is okay, i just wanted to tell the shooter "heads up". It´s not the worst DQ in history. For the future: just do what the RO tells you to do. Nothing else. It´s time to calm down and listen when you are finished.

[Rnlinebacker]

I am very new to uspsa.  I shot my first field match last month and a super classifier last weekend.  I was open this weekend and was hungry to get a match in so I got up before 5 to drive 3 and half hours away for a nice level 1.  In the truck I clearly had a bit of dummy juice because it showed nice and clear the second stage of the day.  I have many many things to work on as a shooter but I had never even considered this would be an issue.

The first stage went fine there was a big sweeping 170 degree transition early on and I was really worried about over extending or not paying attention to the 180.  I felt ok on the stage and there were other good shooters to watch and try to learn from.  I am still really new to the concept of gaming stages and watching people who are good at it still fascinates me.  

The second stage was a very close open, partial hard and head only hard cover target with 3, 2, 1 round engagement.  I thought there isn't much game here just shoot away.  I was the first shooter for the stage and stepped up confident.  I either didn't seat the mag completely or the mag release got pressed between make ready and t1.  I got off my first round and heard the dreaded hammer fall on either a bad primer or empty chamber.  I was kicking myself through the stage and on showing clear and hammer down I wanted to see the magazine right away.  Like a fool I bent over and scooped up the mag while the empty gun was still in hand.  Everyone was really nice and sympathetic but my day of shooting was over with about a minute of trigger time and 7 hours of driving.

I think back to the hundreds of iterations on the range that I would scoop up a round or magazine.  The countless trips to the clearing barrel in Iraq and Afghanistan  worried about getting the round scooped up.  Best believe Nick isn't going to be trying to catch a round or scoop a magazine with a dead gun in hand.  
The video of my shame.
 

Listen my friend, I'm not sure why so many people get soooooo upset when mistakes happen. It's make believe! The only reality is that there is a live firearm and strict rules are in place for everyone's safety.

If you have a s#!tty stage no worries as one stage can't cost you an entire. Keep your cool, compartmentalize your mistakes, keep pushing through the stage to finish strong. Remember, it's only YOU versus YOU on every stage and every match. Wishing you many many successful matches in the future.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[regor]

On 5/12/2019 at 9:50 AM, MemphisMechanic said:

I’ve yelled “STOP!” and then told the wide-eyed novice to “holster before bending over” on many occasions. Same with “MUZZLE!” when a new guy’s eyes shift toward an uprange target and you know he’s about to swing past the 180.

 

It’s common practice. Not for veteran shooters, but most definitely for new ones.

 

 

 

Interesting, in my head I thought this was not allowed, but under 8.6.1 safety warnings are specifically allowed by any RO at any time and do not count as interference. Always good to reread the rule book! 

[nick779]

Its interesting you posted this because I did a bit of the same thing, but didnt get DQed. I unloaded to show clear, hammer down, and bent over to pick up the round before holstering.

 

I never even considered I could have been Dqed for something like that. I didnt sweep though.