calibration challenge

[TaterHead]

From 2016 Nationals, 1 popper.

 

https://practiscore.com/results/html/ccb1d956-48c2-4a99-9105-3d914ba88975?page=stage5-limited

 

 

 

[Ssanders224]

19 minutes ago, TaterHead said:

From 2016 Nationals, 1 popper.

 

https://practiscore.com/results/html/ccb1d956-48c2-4a99-9105-3d914ba88975?page=stage5-limited

 

 

 

 

Silly stage. 
But it was fun standing around watching everyone go for it. 

[echotango]

5 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

Yes, the competitor’s hit anywhere on the popper is enough to justify calibration. 

 

 

Appendix C1 has some more details about the actual calibration process. 

 

Basically, for initial calibration before the match, you want to hit the calibration zone and shoot from the furthest possible shot that could be taken on the popper. 

 

When it’s challenged, you shoot it from wherever it was actually shot from. You ideally want to hit the calibration zone.

 

When the calibration shot is taken, you can have the following results:

a - Hit at or below the calibration zone and the popper falls. Popper will be scored as a miss. 

b - Hit anywhere on the popper and it doesn’t fall. Shooter gets a reshoot. 

c - Hit above the calibration zone. Shooter gets a reshoot. 

d - Miss the popper completely. Shoot again. 

Had 2 calibration calls at a match 3 weeks ago and the md missed both times.  It was hilarious the 2nd time.. 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by echotango

[DKorn]

1 minute ago, echotango said:

Had 2 calibration calls at a match 3 weeks ago and the md missed both times.  It was hilarious the 2nd time.. 

 

 

Are you saying you were given a reshoot each time because the calibration shot missed the popper completely? That’s incorrect per Appendix C1 7.d. 

[echotango]

2 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

Are you saying you were given a reshoot each time because the calibration shot missed the popper completely? That’s incorrect per Appendix C1 7.d. 

You are correct, I just read it and it was called incorrectly.  That is how they called it.  Both times they fired one shot and gave him the reshoot. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by echotango

[DKorn]

Just now, echotango said:

You are correct, I just read it and it went down incorrectly.  That is how they called it.  

 

A lot of people (including ROs who should know better) seem to have this same misconception. I think they get confused with the part where if the calibration shot hits above the calibration zone, it’s an automatic reshoot. 

[NickBlasta]

17 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

I was thinking 8.1.4, then realized that you were specifying loaded chamber, no magazine. The only things I can think of that would make this a problem are Revolvers and firearms with magazine disconnects. I can’t find anything in the rules that specifically allows or disallows this - all I can find is stuff referring to loaded or unloaded starts. Again, this is probably because of Revolvers. Can you specify a loaded but not chambered start in USPSA? 

 

8.1.4 is actually the applicable rule.

 

8.1.4 Unless complying with a Division requirement (see Appendix D), a competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded or reloaded in a firearm.  Written stage briefings may only stipulate when the firearm is to be loaded or when mandatory reloads are required (when permitted under Rules 1.1.5.1 and 1.1.5.2).

 

Relevant terms, "loaded", "reloaded"-

 

Loading The insertion of ammunition into a firearm.  Loading is completed when ammunition is inserted, firearm is in battery (slide forward or cylinder closed and ready to fire), and the competitor’s hand has been removed from the magazine or other loading device (except as may occur during establishing a normal grip on the firearm).

 

Reloading The replenishment or the insertion of additional ammunition into a firearm.  The reload is not complete until the magazine/speed loader is fully inserted, firearm is in battery (slide forward or cylinder closed and ready to fire), and the competitor’s hand has been removed from the magazine or other loading device (except as may occur during establishing a normal grip on the firearm).

 

So you can see, the definition of loaded / reloaded does not include "a round in the chamber" meaning that a "magazine inserted, chamber empty" start position is legal. Similarly, since you cannot tell a shooter how much ammo they can load into their gun, you cannot do a "round chambered, magazine removed" start.

[HCH]

4 hours ago, NickBlasta said:

 

8.1.4 is actually the applicable rule.

 

8.1.4 Unless complying with a Division requirement (see Appendix D), a competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded or reloaded in a firearm.  Written stage briefings may only stipulate when the firearm is to be loaded or when mandatory reloads are required (when permitted under Rules 1.1.5.1 and 1.1.5.2).

 

Relevant terms, "loaded", "reloaded"-

 

Loading The insertion of ammunition into a firearm.  Loading is completed when ammunition is inserted, firearm is in battery (slide forward or cylinder closed and ready to fire), and the competitor’s hand has been removed from the magazine or other loading device (except as may occur during establishing a normal grip on the firearm).

 

Reloading The replenishment or the insertion of additional ammunition into a firearm.  The reload is not complete until the magazine/speed loader is fully inserted, firearm is in battery (slide forward or cylinder closed and ready to fire), and the competitor’s hand has been removed from the magazine or other loading device (except as may occur during establishing a normal grip on the firearm).

 

So you can see, the definition of loaded / reloaded does not include "a round in the chamber" meaning that a "magazine inserted, chamber empty" start position is legal. Similarly, since you cannot tell a shooter how much ammo they can load into their gun, you cannot do a "round chambered, magazine removed" start.

 

 

How would one work that when it comes to revolver? 

 

We’re getting way off topic here, but it seems like start condition should be the same for everyone. Except PCC. Those things are the devil.

[MikeBurgess]

33 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

 

How would one work that when it comes to revolver? 

 

We’re getting way off topic here, but it seems like start condition should be the same for everyone. Except PCC. Those things are the devil.

In reality nobody cares about revolvers, my experience has been for mag in empty chamber starts, revolvers have been made to load as normal, technically the divisions are not competing with each other so it should probably be called out in the WSB like PCC start positions but its normally not.

 

like when a WSB at a local says all "mags" on table or barrel I will just do the same with my moonclips to not be a hassle to the MD who is already working too hard, but if I was at a L2 and it said all Mags on table I would start with my Moonclips on my belt and make the RO call the RM if they wanted me to do something else. 

[HCH]

1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said:

In reality nobody cares about revolvers, my experience has been for mag in empty chamber starts, revolvers have been made to load as normal, technically the divisions are not competing with each other so it should probably be called out in the WSB like PCC start positions but its normally not.

 

like when a WSB at a local says all "mags" on table or barrel I will just do the same with my moonclips to not be a hassle to the MD who is already working too hard, but if I was at a L2 and it said all Mags on table I would start with my Moonclips on my belt and make the RO call the RM if they wanted me to do something else. 

 

I suppose you’re right, but before PCC came along, I don’t ever remember seeing a WSB that said “Divisions ABC start loaded, while divisions XYZ start unloaded.”

 

It is also strange that at a couple of the clubs I shoot at, we have more revolver shooters that production shooters. 

[MikeBurgess]

1 hour ago, HCH said:

 

I suppose you’re right, but before PCC came along, I don’t ever remember seeing a WSB that said “Divisions ABC start loaded, while divisions XYZ start unloaded.”

 

It is also strange that at a couple of the clubs I shoot at, we have more revolver shooters that production shooters. 

Agreed, I never saw a division called out separately till PCC either, but on several occasions I saw start conditions that did not work with revos or were easily gamed to not be the same for revos, so they probably should have been. 

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, HCH said:

It is also strange that at a couple of the clubs I shoot at, we have more revolver shooters that production shooters.

 

I’d imagine that all of your optic shooters are running a green dot. Because a red one would blend in with the soil on Mars.

[HCH]

58 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

I’d imagine that all of your optic shooters are running a green dot. Because a red one would blend in with the soil on Mars.

 

Mars; West Texas... both equally habitable. 

 

It’s odd no doubt. Production just never has been very popular here. 

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, HCH said:

It is also strange that at a couple of the clubs I shoot at, we have more revolver shooters that production shooters. 

 

God bless Texas.

 

Where men are still men, some of the women are too, and all of the sheep are nervous. 

[motosapiens]

If anyone cared about revolvers, one would just put 'all ammunition must start on barrel' instead of 'all magazines'.  OTOH, it's already painful enough to endure a revolver shooter's run, so I'd probably just look the other way and let them do whatever they want to go slightly faster.

[MikeBurgess]

9 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

If anyone cared about revolvers, one would just put 'all ammunition must start on barrel' instead of 'all magazines'.  OTOH, it's already painful enough to endure a revolver shooter's run, so I'd probably just look the other way and let them do whatever they want to go slightly faster.

yep, last USPSA match I shot only 41 auto shooters had to Endure me beating them with a revo

[motosapiens]

1 minute ago, MikeBurgess said:

yep, last USPSA match I shot only 41 auto shooters had to Endure me beating them with a revo

 

Let me tell you about my crossfit....

[MikeBurgess]

38 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

Let me tell you about my crossfit....

you can tell me but I'll still be lazy and not do anything to try to keep up

[NickBlasta]

6 hours ago, HCH said:

 

 

How would one work that when it comes to revolver? 

 

We’re getting way off topic here, but it seems like start condition should be the same for everyone. Except PCC. Those things are the devil.

 

The only relevant portion to a revo is "loaded". It's the same as a normal loaded start.

[WaJim]

Well, right after I started USPSA I got chewed out for NOT calling for calibration by a veteran shooter.

 

I just hosed a steel stage...better than I ever thought I could at the time and didn't want to re-shoot it.

 

 

He said I was screwing the next shooter by NOT calling for calibration.

 

:shrug: 

 

I took the Mike....no reshoot.

 

 

[WaJim]

On 4/30/2019 at 4:55 PM, Diver123 said:

Where does it say when a calibration challenge has to be called for. Can it be anytime during scoring or does it have to be immediately after ULSC? I looked but don't see anything saying when.

 

 

IIRC you also have to ask before paper scoring or seeing the time.

 

Ill see if I can find the rule.

 

 

 

I cant find it...

 

Maybe thats an Interference (bump/contact) by RO reshoot rule?

 

 

Edit:

 

Yeah thats an RO interference rule.

 

Sorry

Edited May 3, 2019 by WaJim

[IHAVEGAS]

5 hours ago, WaJim said:

Well, right after I started USPSA I got chewed out for NOT calling for calibration by a veteran shooter.

 

It is good to practice politely ignoring people like that. 

[OPENB]

It's your stage, your score, screw him. 

[Sarge]

7 hours ago, WaJim said:

Well, right after I started USPSA I got chewed out for NOT calling for calibration by a veteran shooter.

 

I just hosed a steel stage...better than I ever thought I could at the time and didn't want to re-shoot it.

 

 

He said I was screwing the next shooter by NOT calling for calibration.

 

:shrug: 

 

I took the Mike....no reshoot.

 

 

You weren’t screwing anybody. After you declined calibration the RO should have checked to make sure the steel wasn’t out of adjustment and too heavy. RO should have adjusted it if needed. Next shooter should have insisted it be checked. 

  

[HCH]

7 hours ago, WaJim said:

Well, right after I started USPSA I got chewed out for NOT calling for calibration by a veteran shooter.

 

I just hosed a steel stage...better than I ever thought I could at the time and didn't want to re-shoot it.

 

 

He said I was screwing the next shooter by NOT calling for calibration.

 

:shrug: 

 

I took the Mike....no reshoot.

 

 

 

Let me guess.. he was shooting a 1911 in a leather holster with 200 PF ammo?