calibration challenge

[Diver123]

Where does it say when a calibration challenge has to be called for. Can it be anytime during scoring or does it have to be immediately after ULSC? I looked but don't see anything saying when.

[Lee Cabana]

I’d cite Appendix C1.6.c  “must not be touched or interferes with”.  Up to the pint the hit mark has been painted, it hasn’t been interferes with.  After that, it has.  

[RJH]

9.6.4 Any challenge to a score or penalty must be appealed to the Range Officer by the competitor (or his delegate) prior to the subject target being painted, patched, or reset, failing which such challenges will not be accepted

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Diver123 said:

Where does it say when a calibration challenge has to be called for. Can it be anytime during scoring or does it have to be immediately after ULSC? I looked but don't see anything saying when.

Any time before it gets painted, touched, etc. Often shooters and in some cases even RO's don't realize steel is still standing until after the scoring has started.

[DKorn]

A couple other notes (may be obvious):

-The shooter has to ask for calibration. It’s not automatic. 

-There has to be evidence of a hit on the surface of the target. If there’s no evidence of a hit, it’s a miss. 

-It doesn’t matter what or where the hit is. Low, high, dead center, edge. Doesn’t matter. Full diameter, or barely nicked it. Doesn’t matter. 

[Sarge]

12 minutes ago, DKorn said:

A couple other notes (may be obvious):

-The shooter has to ask for calibration. It’s not automatic. DUH

-There has to be evidence of a hit on the surface of the target. If there’s no evidence of a hit, it’s a miss. DUH

-It doesn’t matter what or where the hit is. Low, high, dead center, edge. Doesn’t matter. Full diameter, or barely nicked it. Doesn’t matter. DUH

[broadside72]

You'd be surprised how many people think the last item there is not true. To many people argue the hit has to be in the calibration zone to be able to call for it

[rustychev]

8 hours ago, broadside72 said:

10 hours ago, Sarge said:

You'd be surprised how many people think the last item there is not true. To many people argue the hit has to be in the calibration zone to be able to call for it

Including a RM at a level 2 I was at.  

[rowdyb]

Unless you're shooting IPSC, then that does matter. Maybe that's where the confusion stems from??

[DKorn]

I think people get where their hit needs to be (anywhere on the popper) mixed up with the requirements for where it has to be hit during a calibration challenge. I’ve seen a lot of misconceptions about the rules for that even though they’re fairly straightforward (Appendix C1 7.a-d). 

[Nevadazielmeister]

12 hours ago, DKorn said:

A couple other notes (may be obvious):

-The shooter has to ask for calibration. It’s not automatic. 

-There has to be evidence of a hit on the surface of the target. If there’s no evidence of a hit, it’s a miss. 

-It doesn’t matter what or where the hit is. Low, high, dead center, edge. Doesn’t matter. Full diameter, or barely nicked it. Doesn’t matter. 

 

Just to be clear for the kids at home, you are talking about the competitor's hit can be anywhere on the popper target. The calibration shot must hit in the calibration zone per Appendix B2 to properly calibrate the popper. Correct?

[DKorn]

1 minute ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

Just to be clear for the kids at home, you are talking about the competitor's hit can be anywhere on the popper target. The calibration shot must hit in the calibration zone per Appendix B2 to properly calibrate the popper. Correct?

 

Yes, the competitor’s hit anywhere on the popper is enough to justify calibration. 

 

 

Appendix C1 has some more details about the actual calibration process. 

 

Basically, for initial calibration before the match, you want to hit the calibration zone and shoot from the furthest possible shot that could be taken on the popper. 

 

When it’s challenged, you shoot it from wherever it was actually shot from. You ideally want to hit the calibration zone.

 

When the calibration shot is taken, you can have the following results:

a - Hit at or below the calibration zone and the popper falls. Popper will be scored as a miss. 

b - Hit anywhere on the popper and it doesn’t fall. Shooter gets a reshoot. 

c - Hit above the calibration zone. Shooter gets a reshoot. 

d - Miss the popper completely. Shoot again. 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

a - Hit at or below the calibration zone and the popper falls. Popper will be scored as a miss. 

b - Hit anywhere on the popper and it doesn’t fall. Shooter gets a reshoot. 

c - Hit above the calibration zone. Shooter gets a reshoot. 

d - Miss the popper completely. Take a lot of crap from the whole squad for the rest of the day. Shoot again. 

 

FIFY

[DKorn]

10 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

FIFY

 

 

Its hilarious how much pressure there is on you when you’re shooting a calibration shot. 

 

Last weekend we had a popper that was set way too light and kept blowing over, so we made some pretty significant adjustments. I was the RO on the squad and someone comments “You should probably have someone shoot it with 9mm just to be sure it’s not set way too heavy.” Not an official calibration, but also not a bad idea. I’ve never felt so much pressure off the clock to make an accurate hit, but I center punched it. 

[StealthyBlagga]

40 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

 

Its hilarious how much pressure there is on you when you’re shooting a calibration shot. 

 

Last weekend we had a popper that was set way too light and kept blowing over, so we made some pretty significant adjustments. I was the RO on the squad and someone comments “You should probably have someone shoot it with 9mm just to be sure it’s not set way too heavy.” Not an official calibration, but also not a bad idea. I’ve never felt so much pressure off the clock to make an accurate hit, but I center punched it. 

 

Sounds like a great stage idea. One Popper. One shot only. As much time as you want to make the shot. Easy to set up 

 

(yes, I know its not legal)

[DKorn]

2 minutes ago, StealthyBlagga said:

 

Sounds like a great stage idea. One Popper. One shot only. As much time as you want to make the shot. Easy to set up 

 

(yes, I know its not legal)

 

I mean, you can’t make it Virginia Count to limit the shooter to 1 round since the COF includes steel, but you could have a stage that’s one popper at a fairly long distance as a speed shoot. It’d be interesting to see the risk/benefit of taking a quick shot on it and maybe needing a makeup versus taking a little more time to aim. 

 

You could also put no shoots next to (or behind) it. 

[StealthyBlagga]

3 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

I mean, you can’t make it Virginia Count to limit the shooter to 1 round since the COF includes steel, but you could have a stage that’s one popper at a fairly long distance as a speed shoot. It’d be interesting to see the risk/benefit of taking a quick shot on it and maybe needing a makeup versus taking a little more time to aim. 

 

You could also put no shoots next to (or behind) it. 

 

It can be done legally as a Comstock stage. The shooter starts in the shooting area with ONE round loaded in the gun, all other ammo and mags start staged on a table 100 yards .downrange. On the beep, engage the target from the shooting area.

[motosapiens]

6 minutes ago, StealthyBlagga said:

 

It can be done legally as a Comstock stage. The shooter starts in the shooting area with ONE round loaded in the gun, all other ammo and mags start staged on a table 100 yards .downrange. On the beep, engage the target from the shooting area.

legal in IDPA, not in USPSA.

[StealthyBlagga]

Just now, motosapiens said:

legal in IDPA, not in USPSA.

 

I was thinking of the start position being "one round chambered, magazine removed". I'm not aware of a USPSA rule prohibiting this, but I am not infallible.

[motosapiens]

3 minutes ago, StealthyBlagga said:

 

I was thinking of the start position being "one round chambered, magazine removed". I'm not aware of a USPSA rule prohibiting this, but I am not infallible.

 

I don't think you can do that. you can specify loaded, or you can specify unloaded, but you can't restrict the number of rounds.

 

 

 

8.1.4 Unless complying with a Division requirement (see Appendix D), a competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded or reloaded in a firearm. Written stage briefings may only stipulate when the firearm is to be loaded or when mandatory reloads are required (when permitted under Rules 1.1.5.1 and 1.1.5.2).

[DKorn]

2 minutes ago, StealthyBlagga said:

 

I was thinking of the start position being "one round chambered, magazine removed". I'm not aware of a USPSA rule prohibiting this, but I am not infallible.

 

I was thinking 8.1.4, then realized that you were specifying loaded chamber, no magazine. The only things I can think of that would make this a problem are Revolvers and firearms with magazine disconnects. I can’t find anything in the rules that specifically allows or disallows this - all I can find is stuff referring to loaded or unloaded starts. Again, this is probably because of Revolvers. Can you specify a loaded but not chambered start in USPSA? 

[NMBOpen]

Mandatory reload before reengaging might comply.

[DKorn]

24 minutes ago, NMBOpen said:

Mandatory reload before reengaging might comply.

 

Could you specify “mandatory reload between each shot” for clarity?

[motosapiens]

This is why we have so many rules. For each rule, somewhere, someone came up with a really dumb and annoying idea to actually use in a match.

[Beef15]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 

I mean, you can’t make it Virginia Count to limit the shooter to 1 round since the COF includes steel, but you could have a stage that’s one popper at a fairly long distance as a speed shoot. It’d be interesting to see the risk/benefit of taking a quick shot on it and maybe needing a makeup versus taking a little more time to aim. 

 

You could also put no shoots next to (or behind) it. 

They did this at a Lvl 2 here a couple years ago. No no shoots. Forget the yardage, long but reasonable.

 

Sort of interesting, sort of dumb, many rushed, lots of make up shots were fired.