Military 9mm ammo almost makes Major ?

[Hi-Power Jack]

In the newest (May, 2019) issue of AR, it seems that Winchester is

now loading ammo for the military that is a 115 gr ball (FMJ) ammo

at 1326 FPS - that's PF 152.5 !!

 

So, next time you shoot some of your "wimp" loads of PF 125 - 132,

remember that women in our Armed Forces are shooting PF 152.5     

[Explosiveo]

I bet that's enjoyable to shoot!

[DKorn]

I wonder if it actually makes that velocity. A lot of published velocities are much higher than actual velocities. 

[zzt]

Jack, it's 1190fps out of a pistol.  Shoot it out of a carbine with 14-16" barrels and you get 150+PF.  

[DKorn]

57 minutes ago, zzt said:

Jack, it's 1190fps out of a pistol.  Shoot it out of a carbine with 14-16" barrels and you get 150+PF.  

 

That makes a lot more sense. 1190 FPS for a 115 grain comes out to 136.85 PF, which sounds about right for a round that I would expect to be a bit, but not too much, hotter than “gamer” ammo. 

[ltdmstr]

Nothing special about the mil stuff in terms of pf.  Federal Hydra-Shok 124g runs 1120 fps which comes to 139 pf.  Probably about the same for most +P+ 9mm ammo.

[Ssanders224]

Winchester RA9TA pushes a 127gr T series to about 1250 fps at the muzzle (almost 159 PF). 

It's not too bad out of a service pistol. 

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

6 hours ago, DKorn said:

I wonder if it actually makes that velocity.  

 

5 hours ago, zzt said:

Jack, it's 1190fps out of a pistol.  

 

According to American Rifleman, they tested the ammo in the new 

Sig pistol, and it hits 1,326 FPS.

[hamiltonian]

2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

 

According to American Rifleman, they tested the ammo in the new 

Sig pistol, and it hits 1,326 FPS.

And why are we still forbidden to shoot 9mm major in Limited Division????

[dansedgli]

Capacity. 

[Posvar]

36 minutes ago, dansedgli said:

Capacity. 

Exactly 

[superdude]

3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

 

According to American Rifleman, they tested the ammo in the new 

Sig pistol, and it hits 1,326 FPS.

 

This is correct.

 

The article: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/4/23/m1152-m1153-the-army-s-new-9-mm-luger-loads/

 

From the article: 

"The pressures for the M1152 and M1153 are 39,700 p.s.i.

 

"In our tests in 1985, XM882 propelled a 124-gr. round-nose FMJ out of the 5" barrel of an M9 at an average of 1273 f.p.s., delivering 446 ft.-lbs. of energy at 15 ft. Using an Oehler Model 43 and firing the new ammunition out of a 4.7"-barreled P320-M17, M1152 with the 115-gr. bullet was at 1326 f.p.s. and 449 ft.-lbs. of energy, while the M1153 clocked 962 f.p.s. with 302 ft.-lbs., both at 15 ft." 

[yigal]

when i shot open gun i used IMI  military ammo. in all competitions my  PF was 155, but minor.

6" SLM  perfectly fitted  barrel with 7075 alum. comp. with steel inserts. 

it never bothered me that it's minor.

[IHMSA15151]

2 hours ago, superdude said:

 

This is correct.

 

The article: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/4/23/m1152-m1153-the-army-s-new-9-mm-luger-loads/

 

From the article: 

"The pressures for the M1152 and M1153 are 39,700 p.s.i.

 

"In our tests in 1985, XM882 propelled a 124-gr. round-nose FMJ out of the 5" barrel of an M9 at an average of 1273 f.p.s., delivering 446 ft.-lbs. of energy at 15 ft. Using an Oehler Model 43 and firing the new ammunition out of a 4.7"-barreled P320-M17, M1152 with the 115-gr. bullet was at 1326 f.p.s. and 449 ft.-lbs. of energy, while the M1153 clocked 962 f.p.s. with 302 ft.-lbs., both at 15 ft." 

I saw that article, read it just a few days ago. I was thinking maybe they had some kind of typo on the velocity. 

[zzt]

13 hours ago, hamiltonian said:

And why are we still forbidden to shoot 9mm major in Limited Division????

 

Not capacity.  It would be very, very hard on the gun, and the hand.  Plus, there is the safety issue.

Edited April 30, 2019 by zzt

[DKorn]

15 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Not capacity.  It would be very, very hard on the gun, and the hand.  Plus, there is the safety issue.

 

How is 9mm major out of a limited gun less safe than out of an open gun?

[MemphisMechanic]

44 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

How is 9mm major out of a limited gun less safe than out of an open gun?

 

Because it’s unsafe for the Board of Directors.

 

What do you think will happen if they make a million dollars worth of SVI / Akai / Atlas Limited .40s obsolete?

 

 ($1M worth is only like ten of these guns, so my math checks out.   )

 

Their houses will be fire-bombed and they’ll all be tarred and feathered. And they know it.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[MemphisMechanic]

You’ll never see Major 9 in Limited because they won’t risk angering every single competitor currently shooting in the most popular division.

 

The end.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[HCH]

Easy fix.

 

Limited Major: 18 round capacity limit

Limited Minor: 25 round capacity limit

 

And bump  Major to 180PF

[Racinready300ex]

19 minutes ago, HCH said:

Easy fix.

 

Limited Major: 18 round capacity limit

Limited Minor: 25 round capacity limit

 

And bump  Major to 180PF

 

That sounds dumb.

 

So I'll have to bump my load up from 170-172 to 185 or so. Harder on me, harder on my gun, more money in components. Oh and I get to down load all my mags to 18, the RO will have  to keep track to make sure I didn't load 19 so he can bump me to open. All that and it would still be dumb to shoot minor.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Racinready300ex

[lstange]

16 hours ago, hamiltonian said:

And why are we still forbidden to shoot 9mm major in Limited Division????

Because USPSA for some reason wanted to prevent S&W from selling 3566 in .356 TSW.

 

Hence the funny logic "minimum .40 caliber to make Major in Limited (but not Open), yet .357 SIG is ok"

 

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sw-3566-an-ipsc-game-changer-that-didnt/

[zzt]

2 hours ago, DKorn said:

How is 9mm major out of a limited gun less safe than out of an open gun?

 

Because Open guns have comps and/or poppels to redirect the gasses, and most doesn't exit the front.  That saves the slide, and keeps the frame from getting battered.  I know that is the case, because I run 7 lb recoil springs in two of my Open guns, and 8 lb springs in the other two.

 

My Limited load is 3.7gr e3 under a 180.  My 9mm major load is 10.3gr Major Pistol under a 115.  Fire that in a 19/2011 with no comp or poppels and you would need a 20 lb recoil spring, and I'm not sure that would save the slide.

 

Also, every cartridge eligible for Limited major makes major withing SAAMI pressures.  You can't say the same for 9mm major unless you load way long and use a case full of very slow powder.  Even then you are above SAAMI limits.  Plus you are talking about massive recoil.

[HCH]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

That sounds dumb.

 

So I'll have to bump my load up from 170-172 to 185 or so. Harder on me, harder on my gun, more money in components. Oh and I get to down load all my mags to 18, the RO will have  to keep track to make sure I didn't load 19 so he can bump me to open. All that and it would still be dumb to shoot minor.

 

So why do we penalize shooting .45 in Limited by handicapping capacity?

[zzt]

42 minutes ago, lstange said:

Hence the funny logic "minimum .40 caliber to make Major in Limited (but not Open), yet .357 SIG is ok

 

I agree .357 Sig is silly in Limited.  But it is under SAAMI limits for the cartridge.  I originally shot 40sw in Open for just that reason.   I shoot 40 and 9 now, because I know how to keep the pressures down.

[zzt]

Just now, HCH said:

So why do we penalize shooting .45 in Limited by handicapping capacity?

 

We don't.  We limit mag length.  If you want to shoot a fat cartridge, you give up capacity.  Same with my Open guns.  The 9mm holds three more cartridges than the 40 in both 140 and 170 mags.