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Jumping into PCC: Buy complete or Frankenstein


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Getting into PCC, what's the best of the best, and is what's better, buy complete or piece it together (short barrel w/bloop tube?). I have extensive experience with AR builds but not with the smaller caliber blowback systems. Looking at the JP but the forearm is an eye sore (prefer the slim extended). Prefer the Glock mags because of reliability(?) and availability. Top priority is overall reliability. Funds are unlimited. 

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The real draw back to building your own is the special tools and knowledge. You seem to have both. Building is the way to go especially if you enjoy doing that. Pick components carefully. See what everyone else has had trouble with. 

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Thank you for the advise, JP does put out a great product but I do like the idea of piecing one together. What barrel length do you use? PCC competitor are using shorter barrels now, is that for reliability, pressure issues, or ?

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11 minutes ago, z40acp said:

The real draw back to building your own is the special tools and knowledge. You seem to have both. Building is the way to go especially if you enjoy doing that. Pick components carefully. See what everyone else has had trouble with. 

 

 Tools and knowledge of assembly is not an issue. Choosing the components that work reliably together is what I'll have research, mainly barrel length, recoil system and matching what works together.

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3 hours ago, Gunjack said:

Thank you for the advise, JP does put out a great product but I do like the idea of piecing one together. What barrel length do you use? PCC competitor are using shorter barrels now, is that for reliability, pressure issues, or ?

I bought the Wilson 16" SS barrel Aircooled6racer talks about. I am using a Taccom bolt and his buffer system. His carbon fiber forearm is pretty light weight and cost friendly.

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On 4/27/2019 at 11:35 AM, Gunjack said:

Getting into PCC, what's the best of the best, and is what's better, buy complete or piece it together (short barrel w/bloop tube?). I have extensive experience with AR builds but not with the smaller caliber blowback systems. Looking at the JP but the forearm is an eye sore (prefer the slim extended). Prefer the Glock mags because of reliability(?) and availability. Top priority is overall reliability. Funds are unlimited. 

If you want the new JP MLOK handguard I think it released at NRA as well. More of a slim design for the current trend of slim hand guards. 

 

Regarding your question on reliability, order the JP. I put 100,000 on my first one. It's a match loaner and it ran every 9mm ever put through it. Only reason I stopped shooting it was a pair of new GMR15s showed up one day. If you have the funds go 10.5 pistol then Form 1 online SBR. 1 WEEK later you have your stamp back. 

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If you want to build with preferred handguard, stock, safety, grip, etc?

 

Buy a high quality upper and lower (Quarter Circle 10 blem pair is a great choice) and run all JP moving parts; their BCG, trigger, and barrel under your favorite handguard.

 

It’s as reliable as the JP rifle and you don’t have to pay for the full JP up front... then pay more money to swap it’s safety grip or handguard out.

 

I sold a buddy on going this route and he has literally never had a malfunction in 2,000ish rounds of the factory ammo he’s run. Hasn’t so much as racked a single bad round out of the chamber.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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My CK Arms PCC with the Taccom ULW barrel was reliable out of the box, but required some tuning to get the recoil feeling good.  Now it feels great, but there was a fair amount of trial and error that went into getting there.  Recently grabbed a MPX Competition and it feels about as soft out of the box with no tuning at all, though it is a bit heavier.

Point being, if you like to tinker, an AR9 isn't likely to hold you back.  If you don't, I'd say pay a bit extra and get something that's ready to run out of the box.

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My thoughts followed by a simple question.

 

It seems pretty apparent the equipment in PCC is still evolving by the day … like the more and more trendy move to the ULW 5+ inch barrels (like the JP ULW 5.5 inch); what seems more likely a purely competitive option into the PCC division (correct me if I'm wrong, handling and weight being the difference plus the possibility of greater reliability with a wider variety of loads and the use of weaker brass options?) though that short barrel makes the PCC more like a competitive pistol with a rifle stock rather than a true carbine (I know, define carbine: a shorter barreled rifle). The BBTI chart http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html shows only a few hundred fps between a 5 inch and a 14 inch barrel.  If I was to build a PCC with a 5.5 inch barrel, I FEEL it would end up having a narrow use, and end up being only a second or even third option to a pistol or shotgun if I was to eventually repurpose it as a home defense weapon; basically turning the 5 inch PCC into competition firearm only (maybe that's what they all are anyway). As for myself, the true SBR option outside of competition is a .223 or Blackout,  a way better solution based on ballistics alone. Numbers don't lie, a PCC with 5 inch barrel is a pistol with a stock although in fairness, a 14 inch 9mm is just a little faster, 200+ - (guess it depends on how you want to apply those numbers … energy, fps, etc).

 

In this sport, it's about fractions of a second. So I ask myself, do I build a competitive 5.5 PCC that has (generally) just one purpose or a (possibly) more broadly useful carbine (14/16 inch) that may or may not end up be as competitive against the shorter 5 inch barrels.

 

Simple question: Besides what Max or Eric are using, is a short 5.5 inch barrel an overall better option to compete with?

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To an extent I'm as guilty as many, but, we worry too much about those fractions of seconds. Instead of throwing money at lightweight barrels and carbon fiber handguards, etc., we need to be practicing more, training our bodies to sprint faster and doing things to save seconds instead of the fractions.

BUT, I just ordered a new JP even though I have a very good pcc already. So do as I say, not as I do.

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In my opinion a 5" barrel is better for steel 

And and a longer barrel 14/16 is better for reg. USPSA type shooting.

I am noticing a difference in ease of follow up shots on my heavier gun.

 

In my mind there are only 2 choices

1) go buy an MPX

or

2) go with a  blowback type AR9, build it yourself.

 

Edited by Startingover
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Agreed with Startingover - ran a Taccom ULW for nearly a year in an MPX (USPSA/IDPA), and did pretty well with it, but double-tapping is harder.  Switched back to a heavier 14.5" + comp and the second shots are automatic.  

 

Read the forums and you'll see the same comments come up:

1 - MPX shoots softer than a tuned AR9 with hot factory ammo

2 - This doesn't really matter for your split times

 

Go with what you want.  You can win with either.  I find shooting friends AR9s jarring (I'm an MPX owner), but not any slower.  If Lead Star would put soft-shooting gas piston actions in those beautiful skeletonized upper/lower frames I'd be all over it.  

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If you build your own I've come to really love my Gibbz side charger with extended handle. Since I'm short stroked and can't lock back it makes flag removal and loading way easier than my traditional charging handle. I've got a taccom recoil kit and their ramped 16in barrel. It's 100% reliable and will keep them in the A zone at 15 yards as fast as I can spam the trigger so no meaningful dot bounce.

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12 hours ago, Shepard said:

If you build your own I've come to really love my Gibbz side charger with extended handle. Since I'm short stroked and can't lock back it makes flag removal and loading way easier than my traditional charging handle. I've got a taccom recoil kit and their ramped 16in barrel. It's 100% reliable and will keep them in the A zone at 15 yards as fast as I can spam the trigger so no meaningful dot bounce.

 

Looking at Gibbz upper, interesting, lots of different designs out there, JP, DDC, etc. I might go that route.

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11 hours ago, assaultthesalt said:

Over 1500 rounds through my new MBX Extreme Silverback with zero malfunctions.The tunable recoil system is nice aswell.VERY accurate.I have the 14" superlight barrel with their pinned/welded MBX Comp. :) 

 

Nice complete setup, MBX puts together some great products which some I use. Will certainly consider their PCC.

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21 hours ago, NervousEnergy said:

Agreed with Startingover - ran a Taccom ULW for nearly a year in an MPX (USPSA/IDPA), and did pretty well with it, but double-tapping is harder.  Switched back to a heavier 14.5" + comp and the second shots are automatic.  

 

Read the forums and you'll see the same comments come up:

1 - MPX shoots softer than a tuned AR9 with hot factory ammo

2 - This doesn't really matter for your split times

 

Go with what you want.  You can win with either.  I find shooting friends AR9s jarring (I'm an MPX owner), but not any slower.  If Lead Star would put soft-shooting gas piston actions in those beautiful skeletonized upper/lower frames I'd be all over it.  

 

I'm looking very closely at MPX gen3. What variety of ammo do you use in your MPX? Factory soft loads, hot loads... is it forgiving with different combinations of reloading formulas?

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