Handling squib situation as RO

[elguapo]

21 minutes ago, Sarge said:

A quick glance shows some contradictions and holes in the rules.

 Sweeping in the glossary makes no mention of during a COF. Also, rules regarding safety area clearly says gun must point in safe direction. 

 I have seen guns go off in a safety area so  we can’t just lean on “unloaded”. Because there really is no such thing as an unloaded gun unless YOU look in the chamber. But even then you still never point a gun(sweep)at another person.

  I believe the DQ in a safety area could be a gray area but I have seen it happen.

 

The glossary is there only to provide the narrow meaning of particular words or phrases, not to define when, where, and how a particular word or term is used within the rules.  So I'm not surprised the glossary doesn't go into the details of when sweeping applies or is a DQ.

 

Some common sense needs to apply within the context we're discussing here: a pistol with a bullet stuck somewhere in the barrel.  Once the pistol has been shown clear (mag out and hammer dropped confirming there's no live ammo in it) then one is free to take it to the safe area and manipulate it however necessary to fix the problem.

[DKorn]

Regardless of what the rules say, DQing somebody for sweeping themselves while clearing a squib in the safe area is a clear violation of Troy’s #1 rule (DBAD). 

 

If the rules require it, then we’re stuck with it. But if not, then let’s interpret the rules in a way that doesn’t screw anybody over when they’re already having a bad day. 

[RJH]

I ain't dqing somebody for knocking a squib out outside of the course of fire. I also ain't dqing somebody for looking down their bore in a safe area, even with a pcc

[HoMiE]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

I ain't dqing somebody for knocking a squib out outside of the course of fire. I also ain't dqing somebody for looking down their bore in a safe area, even with a pcc

Not the smartest thing to be looking through barrel from muzzle end if you are at safe table and gun is apart. Just as easy to look from chamber end at that point. 

[RJH]

7 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

Not the smartest thing to be looking through barrel from muzzle end if you are at safe table and gun is apart. Just as easy to look from chamber end at that point. 

Revolver,  marlin camp9, probably some others.  In 3 gun m1a. I look down barrels of guns all the time. If the action is open it is just a piece of pipe

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, elguapo said:

 

The glossary is there only to provide the narrow meaning of particular words or phrases, not to define when, where, and how a particular word or term is used within the rules.  So I'm not surprised the glossary doesn't go into the details of when sweeping applies or is a DQ.

 

Some common sense needs to apply within the context we're discussing here: a pistol with a bullet stuck somewhere in the barrel.  Once the pistol has been shown clear (mag out and hammer dropped confirming there's no live ammo in it) then one is free to take it to the safe area and manipulate it however necessary to fix the problem.

The glossary is more relevant than you give it credit for. Look up “shot”.

[Joe4d]

18 hours ago, DKorn said:

Regardless of what the rules say, DQing somebody for sweeping themselves while clearing a squib in the safe area is a clear violation of Troy’s #1 rule (DBAD). 

 

If the rules require it, then we’re stuck with it. But if not, then let’s interpret the rules in a way that doesn’t screw anybody over when they’re already having a bad day. 

Well there is this rule.
2.4.1 Competitors are permitted to use the Safety Areas for the activities stated below provided they remain within the boundaries of the Safety Area and
the firearm is pointed in a safe direction. Violations are subject to match disqualification (see Rules 10.5.1 & 10.5.12).
One of the activities is repairs.
And this
 5.7.2.1 Attempting to clear a suspected “squib” is specifically prohibited under this provision whether the range officer has called stop or not. Attempting to clear a squib during a course of fire is considered unsafe gun handling and will result in a disqualification.

Seems a bit nitpicky, I mean Ive rodded or boresnaked my handgun at pretty much every big match I have ever shot. Hardcast and tightgroup gets a little nasty. While I wasnt waving it 360 or pointing it at anyone else in the safe area  , I was sweeping my own hands, pretty hard not to.  For that matter last time I had this  squib incident. The CRO cleared the range. insured chamber was empty, had competitor holster, and then had me ( I was serving as a JR RO on the stage) escort the shooter to safe area, and get his bag (the CRO had a malet and wooden rod in his bag,) I went to safe area sure enough a bullet so no reshoot, loaned shooter rod and malet while I went back to inform CRO, who had continued running shooters.
Dunno seemed like a pretty simple and safe way to deal with it.

[Sarge]

Now that I have had time to dwell on this, yes it is normal to work on guns and remove squibs in safety areas. The DQ I recall was a shooter who was standing off to the side of a crowded table. I believe this was part of the reason the rules about fault lines at safety area etc was instituted at majors.

[Gary Stevens]

An RO acting in their official capacity can do things to insure safety. Having the RO insert a zip tie, rod, etc. removes the sweeping issue from the shooter.

[CSEMARTIN]

1 hour ago, Gary Stevens said:

 Having the RO insert a zip tie, rod, etc. removes the sweeping issue from the shooter.

I do think using the zip tie is great idea.  Gary, if there is a squib in the barrel, how would you handle that situation? 

 

With a 1911 it would be easier to knock it out from the muzzle side towards the breech.  Other guns will be easy enough to quickly field strip.  I'm still unsure if it is considered "sweeping" if the course of fire is over, and then there is the distinct possibility that match staff are going to interpret the rules different from me.

[Gary Stevens]

Every squib that I have delt with has been different. Some just barely start in the chamber, and some almost made it out of the barrel. Those are relatively easy to handle. The bad ones are those in the middle. 

 

Send the shooter to a safety table table and let them work on it is about all you can do.  A substitute gun may be the only short term solution.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Gary Stevens

[jessesmith121]

I like the zip tie idea, I carry a rod with me when I RO, If I were to trip for some reason I would rather have a zip tie in my pocket than a pencil or a squib rod.  I keep them in my car anyways.  Thanks for the tip!

[broadside72]

Disassemble it and it's no longer a firearm. Look down the parts all you want.