Load development questions

[slippp]

Hey guys, kind of side tracked....but quick update regarding my buffer.  

 

They made a new redesign of the buffer since my gen that includes two set screws now instead of one at the piston head.  

 

Brian is a good dude and sent out the new buffers today.  Excellent customer service!!  

[RaylanGivens]

21 hours ago, slippp said:

Can you please PM me the number?  I tried calling three times today and nothing. 

 

I don't have any special number...  Click 'About Us' on their web site and scroll down to the bottom...  That's the number I call...  It's the same number @Bwillis posted above.

 

21 hours ago, slippp said:

And to make it worse, both of my blitzkrieg buffers broke today.  The piston heads both came off.....   

 

I took a look at it and it seems like there is still red loctite on the set screw, so I didn't bother messing with it.  But the fact that this happened makes me hard pass on replacing this buffer and instead going with the JP SCS-SS 

 

They changed from a threaded cap to a non-threaded cap with a set screw...  Caps came loose...  Current upgrade is two set screws...  Not sure if anything else changed...  Eliminating the threads stopped the shaft from breaking...  Hopefully good to go now.

 

21 hours ago, slippp said:

https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AR15-KYNJP-9C

 

This is what I ordered. 

 

Per their web site:  You have the JP AR10 Rifle spring... 

 

Not sure what receiver extension you are using, but the rifle spring is quite long for a carbine extension tube...  I've used the rifle spring with different setups...  Currently using the carbine spring.

 

[RaylanGivens]

Ack!!!  Should have clicked to page '2' before I replied...

 

Glad you're good to go...  Brian is a good guy.

 

[slippp]

So I just received the factory JP Short stroke buffer scs ........ 

 

No dry fire yet, but I realized that yes, while it is "short stroke", it's definitely not as short as the blitz with PCC weight.  

 

I wonder if a 135 power factor load will be sufficient with the buffer or if I should have a 142 power factor load so the lockup time is faster.  

 

[Shootymacshootface]

1 hour ago, slippp said:

 

 

I wonder if a 135 power factor load will be sufficient with the buffer or if I should have a 142 power factor load so the lockup time is faster.  

 

Thats one thing that I will never have ro worry about, out shooting my guns action.

[slippp]

4 hours ago, Shootymacshootface said:

Thats one thing that I will never have ro worry about, out shooting my guns action.

Why?  

 

I'm not bragging by no means, but the first day I got my PCC, I took it straight to a match with no tested load.  I found myself waiting for the bolt to cycle back into battery when trying to run the gun through the stages.  

 

When I chrono'd, I was 129 PF, which was definitely way too slow for my setup on day one.  I didn't have a short stroke kit installed either.  

Edited April 26, 2019 by slippp

[Bwillis]

@slippp out of curiosity what are your splits? Out running a gun capable of full auto rate of fire is impressive. 

[Shootymacshootface]

6 hours ago, slippp said:

Why?  

 

I'm not bragging by no means, but the first day I got my PCC, I took it straight to a match with no tested load.  I found myself waiting for the bolt to cycle back into battery when trying to run the gun through the stages.  

 

When I chrono'd, I was 129 PF, which was definitely way too slow for my setup on day one.  I didn't have a short stroke kit installed either.  

I have just never been as fast as the big dogs, but I do have my moments. Unfortunately its pretty random when I pull something great out of my ass. It usually happens when I least expect it to. 

[slippp]

1 hour ago, Bwillis said:

@slippp out of curiosity what are your splits? Out running a gun capable of full auto rate of fire is impressive. 

 

What I'm saying is the bolt lockup time, due to the lighter power factor, wasn't returning the bolt back to battery fast enough with the setup I initially had.  It was a 308 Rifle spring and blitzkrieg non HD buffer.  That combination and my barrel / comp combination was creating a long lockup and long travel time.  It's not because I was too fast, but rather my setup was not optimized.  

 

If I was running 140+ power factor on that setup, I would have definitely not outran it.  

 

I *definitely* can't split faster than full auto  

 

[vgdvc]

Since comps don't have a reputation for being effective with the gas volume produced in a 9mm carbine is anyone running a medium/fast burn rate powder with 145-147 gr. bullet  around 135 pf?  

[MemphisMechanic]

7 minutes ago, vgdvc said:

Since comps don't have a reputation for being effective with the gas volume produced in a 9mm carbine is anyone running a medium/fast burn rate powder with 145-147 gr. bullet  around 135 pf?  

 

147s make the action really sluggish with heavy BCGs, and the felt recoil is nearly identical to a 124 at similar power factor.

 

Most guys are using lighter bullets simply because they’re cheaper and the gun shoots at least as flat - if not flatter.

 

It’s a totally different animal from a handgun. Don’t expect load Production gamer ammo for a rifle division and see the same advantages.

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[PewPewJohnson87]

8 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

147s make the action really sluggish with heavy BCGs, and the felt recoil is nearly identical to a 124 at similar power factor.

 

Most guys are using lighter bullets simply because they’re cheaper and the gun shoots at least as flat - if not flatter.

 

It’s a totally different animal from a handgun. Don’t expect load Production gamer ammo for a rifle division and see the same advantages.

 

I'm a PCC newbie (just got my PCC yesterday) so please forgive my ignorance, but would increasing the PF help with speeding up the action. I know that with a PCC the overall goal is soft shooting & little to no dot bounce.

I'm shooting CO and I use 147's with TiteGroup, I have 10K projectile's so id like to stick with 147's, but from what ive been reading a lot of PCC shooters are using 115 & 124/125's. so I guess what I trying to figure out is there a way to make a competitive load out of 147's that are soft shooting & has little to no bounce of the dot?

 

FYI, The rifle has a Blitz standard buffer with a 308 spring.

[DKorn]

As a non-serious PCC shooter who is running a CZ Scorpion, is it worth bothering to develop a separate load, or will I be ok continuing to run my Production loads (about 133 PF out of a 5” Production gun)? I feel like between my nonexistent practice with PCC and the suboptimal choice of rifle, the ammo doesn’t really matter as long as it runs and makes PF. 

[MemphisMechanic]

@PewPewJohnson87 are your 147s coated or FMJ? If so you’re going to pack the compensator on your PCC with gunk quickly when they’re run over titegroup. 

 

I kept the coated bullets for the handguns after GRINDING the concrete-like mass out of my comp and switched to plated 115s through the PCC (you need either plated, or JHPs.) And - Yes, I mean *grinding*. No amount of scrubbing or soaking in Kroil made a slight dent in the cement-like stuff built up in there.

 

Keep in mind that you’re a grown man firing a handgun from the shoulder, even the more violent PCC recoils are pretty tame. All you’re focused on is a flat gun. The dot staying dead still is your only goal when tuning. Recoil doesn’t matter - don’t load with it as a factor. 

 

(Keep in mind that my friend who loads 135s for 130ish PF has only the slightest bit less recoil than another who loads hotter 115s. The gun weighs three times what a handgun does and spreads the force out over shoulder, AND both hands. Again, don’t think in handgun recoil terms.)

 

Find an accurate load and one that you can tune the buffer and BCG to shoot completely flat.  

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[vgdvc]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

147s make the action really sluggish with heavy BCGs, and the felt recoil is nearly identical to a 124 at similar power factor.

 

Most guys are using lighter bullets simply because they’re cheaper and the gun shoots at least as flat - if not flatter.

 

It’s a totally different animal from a handgun. Don’t expect load Production gamer ammo for a rifle division and see the same advantages.

 

I hear ya. I have an ATI that I am using 145 IbeJi coated bullets pushing at about 135 power factor with Universal Clays. Its set up with a .308 carbine recoil spring and Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer. Seems to be a smooth and non violent cycle. Hiperfire 24C trigger. At 15 yards with a good grip and stance you could put a 10rd magazine full into the head box with .19 avg. splits,never feeling that you're out triggering the action. I'm fairly new to PCC so I'm not sure if this is considered a good standard. I've played with some 124  but never seemed to be that consistent. Certainly willing to try if anyone has a good recipe.

[PewPewJohnson87]

35 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@PewPewJohnson87 are your 147s coated or FMJ? If so you’re going to pack the compensator on your PCC with gunk quickly when they’re run over titegroup. 

 

I kept the coated bullets for the handguns after GRINDING the concrete-like mass out of my comp and switched to plated 115s through the PCC (you need either plated, or JHPs.) And - Yes, I mean *grinding*. No amount of scrubbing or soaking in Kroil made a slight dent in the cement-like stuff built up in there.

 

Keep in mind that you’re a grown man firing a handgun from the shoulder, even the more violent PCC recoils are pretty tame. All you’re focused on is a flat gun. The dot staying dead still is your only goal when tuning. Recoil doesn’t matter - don’t load with it as a factor. 

 

(Keep in mind that my friend who loads 135s for 130ish PF has only the slightest bit less recoil than another who loads hotter 115s. The gun weighs three times what a handgun does and spreads the force out over shoulder, AND both hands. Again, don’t think in handgun recoil terms.)

 

Find an accurate load and one that you can tune the buffer and BCG to shoot completely flat.  

 

They are coated, I was planning on switching to N320 because of the slower burn rate. but the plan to switch wasn't going to happen until the end of the year since I committed to CO this year. should I still switch to a plated or jacketed bullet with N320?

[MemphisMechanic]

I would try them and keep ay eye on your comp. it could work fine, but Titegroup and Prima V both had the same issue.

 

I won’t run anything without a full copper jacket through a compensated rifle anymore. It’s not worth the cost savings to have to carve on my comp with a carbide grinding burr.

[PewPewJohnson87]

22 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I would try them and keep ay eye on your comp. it could work fine, but Titegroup and Prima V both had the same issue.

 

I won’t run anything without a full copper jacket through a compensated rifle anymore. It’s not worth the cost savings to have to carve on my comp with a carbide grinding burr.

gotcha! im gonna buy a few sample pack of some jacketed stuff in different grain bullets to try out. any advice on length of bullets? my X5 likes the bullets loaded long 1.140, but the builder of the PCC suggested 1.100 OAL.

 

Thanks in advance.

[ABQautoxer]

1 hour ago, PewPewJohnson87 said:

gotcha! im gonna buy a few sample pack of some jacketed stuff in different grain bullets to try out. any advice on length of bullets? my X5 likes the bullets loaded long 1.140, but the builder of the PCC suggested 1.100 OAL.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I'm loading mine to 1.120 so they play nicely with my Goliath mag extensions while working in my Shadow 2 (GF's production), and my Limited pistol. So far so good.

[MemphisMechanic]

4 hours ago, PewPewJohnson87 said:

gotcha! im gonna buy a few sample pack of some jacketed stuff in different grain bullets to try out. any advice on length of bullets? my X5 likes the bullets loaded long 1.140, but the builder of the PCC suggested 1.100 OAL.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

FMJs still lead the comp. The base is exposed lead. This is the reason that open guys shoot hollowpoints: the jacket is on backward and the exposed lead is at the tip. There’s no lead exposed in the back to foul the comp.

 

You want a TMJ, plated, or JHP if you want zero comp crud for certain.

[bushmeat]

11 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@PewPewJohnson87 are your 147s coated or FMJ? If so you’re going to pack the compensator on your PCC with gunk quickly when they’re run over titegroup. 

 

I kept the coated bullets for the handguns after GRINDING the concrete-like mass out of my comp and switched to plated 115s through the PCC (you need either plated, or JHPs.) And - Yes, I mean *grinding*. No amount of scrubbing or soaking in Kroil made a slight dent in the cement-like stuff built up in there.

 

Keep in mind that you’re a grown man firing a handgun from the shoulder, even the more violent PCC recoils are pretty tame. All you’re focused on is a flat gun. The dot staying dead still is your only goal when tuning. Recoil doesn’t matter - don’t load with it as a factor. 

 

(Keep in mind that my friend who loads 135s for 130ish PF has only the slightest bit less recoil than another who loads hotter 115s. The gun weighs three times what a handgun does and spreads the force out over shoulder, AND both hands. Again, don’t think in handgun recoil terms.)

 

Find an accurate load and one that you can tune the buffer and BCG to shoot completely flat.  

 

Soaking in CLR overnight would have turned that crud to mud, easily scrubbed off.

[MemphisMechanic]

8 hours ago, bushmeat said:

Soaking in CLR overnight would have turned that crud to mud, easily scrubbed off.

 

I’ve found nothing that works as well as Kroil, and kroil didn’t touch it.

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[oteroman]

So Memphis-
Curious have u tried CLR?