CZ 75B SA

[chetc]

i have a 5 yr old CZ 75B SA with the internals reworked nice trigger ect in 9mm, Im itchin to buy another 9mm,  been reading about he new CZ TSO in 9mm, would that gun be a big step up over the CZ 75B SA as far as 25 to 50yd accuracy., i also am giving a Range Officer a thought, any suggestions

Chet

Edited April 21, 2019 by chetc

[rowdyb]

A step up yes, how big I think is up to you. Longer barrel, even lighter trigger, tighter frame and barrel fit. Mechanically it is all there to be a more accurate gun.

[WoodrowAugustus]

Yeah, a step up for sure. Especially with follow up shots.  If money wasn’t a consideration I’d take a TSO over a RO every time.

[chetc]

i shot a CZ TSO in ya 9mm the other day, guy at range offered me to try it and i let him shoot my Canik TP9SFX with the vortex sight, i do like the cz75 based guns as well as the 1911 style, although the Canik surprised me shooting against the TSO, at 10yds they were equal at 25 the Canik shot tighter due to the sight the TSO has irons. so it was not a fair deal, i imagine if the TSO had a sight, it would be a better comparison.

chet

[chetc]

16 hours ago, WoodrowAugustus said:

Yeah, a step up for sure. Especially with follow up shots.  If money wasn’t a consideration I’d take a TSO over a RO every time.

 hi woodrow

i am curious why would you choose the TSO over the RO, is it the round capacity, reason i ask is i do have a RO in 45acp that shoots just over an inch at 25yds off the rest, money is not exactly a issue at the moment got my income tax check, does  the CZ have less muzzle flip, is the trigger better, i don't see a bushing like a 45 on the front of the tso, can it be replaced if needed, the majority of my shooting will be paper at 10-25 and 50yds, i want to stay with a hammer fired 9mm, hoping to get one to shoot as good or better than my Canik TP9SFX.

 

Chet

[ClangClang]

Hi Chet, the 9mm TSO is designed specifically towards competitive "practical shooting" i.e. 3-gun, Steel Challenge, USPSA matches, etc.  If I read between the lines of your posts, it seems like you are primarily target shooting at static paper and you are most interested in the absolute most accurate pistol possible.  The majority of users here on the BrianEnos forums focus on practical shooting competitions where accuracy is important, but other factors are far more critical. Virtually any quality gun produced today is "accurate enough" for USPSA, but things like followup shots, reloads, etc are far more critical.

 

The TSO and Range Officer will likely have a very similar trigger. The RO might even be a little bit better as a 1911, however both will be very light, very short, single action triggers and it will really be about preference. Accuracy will be similar although again, the RO might be a little better. However, compared to the RO, the TSO will offer much faster follow up shots, faster reloads, triple the magazine capacity, and less perceived recoil.

 

If you are after the most accurate hammer-fired 9mm steel frame pistol, you would probably be better off looking at the "AccuShadow" or "Shadow 2 Accu" from www.czcustom.com. They are both custom tuned pistols with a barrel bushing, are DA/SA, and will have fantastic triggers with polished internals. Either of them would probably be more accurate than a stock TSO, and they would use the same magazines as your 75B. For the TSO, you would need all new mags.  Another option outside of CZ would be the Sig P210 Target. It is an SAO target pistol and reported to be highly accurate, but I've never shot one so I can't say for sure.

Any pistol with a red dot optic will be more accurate at distance than iron sights. Especially with a small red dot (1-3 MOA). You just have to decide whether you prefer optics or iron sights.

[rowdyb]

having owned a RO it felt cheap in my hand compared to a TSO. and my TSO is very very much not a "good enough for the games" accuracy, it is much more. yeah any old service gun, 400 dollar plastic thing is good out to 10 yards. but the TSO is far far better than that out to 50.

[ClangClang]

3 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

having owned a RO it felt cheap in my hand compared to a TSO. and my TSO is very very much not a "good enough for the games" accuracy, it is much more. yeah any old service gun, 400 dollar plastic thing is good out to 10 yards. but the TSO is far far better than that out to 50.

 

I'm only saying the TSO is "good enough" when compared to the Accu-series Shadows, which have been a bit more accurate for me than the TSO, but it's obviously splitting hairs. I've owned a TSO and an Accushadow.

 

OP doesn't compete, he shoots for accuracy/groups on paper on a static range. So my post was directing him towards some more target-oriented guns which will likely serve him better.

[WoodrowAugustus]

If your style is as described above then check this out:

https://oakhillguns.com/cz-custom-75-bullseye-9mm.html

 

[rowdyb]

my accu shadow with the Aus barrel and kensight rear was amazing.

[chetc]

19 hours ago, ClangClang said:

Hi Chet, the 9mm TSO is designed specifically towards competitive "practical shooting" i.e. 3-gun, Steel Challenge, USPSA matches, etc.  If I read between the lines of your posts, it seems like you are primarily target shooting at static paper and you are most interested in the absolute most accurate pistol possible.  The majority of users here on the BrianEnos forums focus on practical shooting competitions where accuracy is important, but other factors are far more critical. Virtually any quality gun produced today is "accurate enough" for USPSA, but things like followup shots, reloads, etc are far more critical.

 

The TSO and Range Officer will likely have a very similar trigger. The RO might even be a little bit better as a 1911, however both will be very light, very short, single action triggers and it will really be about preference. Accuracy will be similar although again, the RO might be a little better. However, compared to the RO, the TSO will offer much faster follow up shots, faster reloads, triple the magazine capacity, and less perceived recoil.

 

If you are after the most accurate hammer-fired 9mm steel frame pistol, you would probably be better off looking at the "AccuShadow" or "Shadow 2 Accu" from www.czcustom.com. They are both custom tuned pistols with a barrel bushing, are DA/SA, and will have fantastic triggers with polished internals. Either of them would probably be more accurate than a stock TSO, and they would use the same magazines as your 75B. For the TSO, you would need all new mags.  Another option outside of CZ would be the Sig P210 Target. It is an SAO target pistol and reported to be highly accurate, but I've never shot one so I can't say for sure.

Any pistol with a red dot optic will be more accurate at distance than iron sights. Especially with a small red dot (1-3 MOA). You just have to decide whether you prefer optics or iron sights.

 

HI Clang

 yes, i should have been more in details on what i want the gun for, i am mainly interested in accuracy and hopefully a gun that will be optics ready, like my Canik it came with both irons and a viper sight, i was now looking at the CZ Shadow 2  PN 91257, i see it's not optics ready, i see the barrel length is shorter than my Canik, is this going to mean much in accuracy for groups at 25 and 50yds, someone mentioned the CZ Bullseye model, don't want to get near the 2 grand mark, hope i can find something for around 1500 or less, one question, will the shadow 2 averagely out shoot the RO, i may be wrong but i have this thing about barrel length, i believe my  cz 75b sa has a barrel length at 4.7, i want to get a bit over 5 if it matters. and one more question, i see the shadow 2 91261 is single double action, in single action with the trigger be as good or better than my cz 75 b sa, which is single action only

 

chet

Edited April 23, 2019 by chetc

[scroadkill]

14 minutes ago, chetc said:

 i see the shadow 2 91261 is single double action, in single action with the trigger be as good or better than my cz 75 b sa, which is single action only

from my experience the tso trigger out of the box is better than the custom 2011s ive tried.. my tso is well broken in and breaks around a 1.5# last time I checked.  very short take up and reset.  the shadow 2s are very nice for sa/da in both sa and da.. but it would take some serious work to get the sa close to a tso.  as for a stock shadow 2 sa vs stock 75B sa  - probably pretty close. 
 

[WoodrowAugustus]

You could get a TSO and the frame side mounted optic.  There’s a thread in this forum from yesterday or so about that very thing.

[ClangClang]

No need to get hung up on barrel length. The overall barrel length of a gun doesn't affect mechanical accuracy, only velocity. That won't have any measurable effect on groups at 25-50 yards.  In fact, shorter barrels can often be more accurate because they are stiffer and therefore suffer from less barrel whip (although that is primarily related to rifles, not pistols, but it's an interesting point to consider).

 

CZ has Optics Ready models coming out soon (ish) but they will be quite expensive. It will probably be cheaper to send your slide to have it machined for an optic. CZ Custom offers a machining package to fit various adapter plates for different optics and they also have a plate that has a rear iron sight (so you can switch between irons and optics by just changing 2 screws). People seem to be very happy with that system but I've never personally tried it.  I have sent 4 slides to @PrimaryBruce who runs Primary Machine to have them direct milled for optics (1 Glock w/RMR, 3 CZs w/ DPPs) and been very happy with their work.

 

There is a used Accushadow available right now in the Classifieds board. That would be a fantastic gun - check out the test target. You could have it sent to CZ Custom or Primary Machine to have it milled for an optic and still come in around $1500 all told.

 

 

 

[chetc]

i looked around for a CZ TSO in a 9mm, no luck, without going over 1500 dollars, what else comes to mind similar to the TSO, i don;t think i want a double action, i sort of like my CZ 75B SA, except for it's accuracy, not my most accurate 9mm, so i am open to suggestions on what i should be considering next, i mainly shoot at 25yds for tightest groups, might stretch it to 50 when i feel the time is right, i do my load testing off the bench with a pistol rest. someone mentioned a Sg P210, and the other was a rock Island. any truth to the attached video

 

   chet

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by chetc

[NoKimberDave]

2 hours ago, chetc said:

i looked around for a CZ TSO in a 9mm, no luck, without going over 1500 dollars, what else comes to mind similar to the TSO, i don;t think i want a double action, i sort of like my CZ 75B SA, except for it's accuracy, not my most accurate 9mm, so i am open to suggestions on what i should be considering next, i mainly shoot at 25yds for tightest groups, might stretch it to 50 when i feel the time is right, i do my load testing off the bench with a pistol rest. someone mentioned a Sg P210, and the other was a rock Island. any truth to the attached video

 

   chet

 

 

 

Spend even a 1/4 of the time they spent on that Rock Island (900$ worth of gunsmithing) on the TSO and you will have very different results. He does make very valid points. But most of them will have zero impact on the style of shooting you are doing. For the shooting like USPSA, these are easily rectified. Evidenced by the glowing reviews by shooters who actually shoot them. Details like slide profile: yes it's more difficult to rack than a 2011. But not all that much. Put a big thumbrest on a 2011 and try that. Take the thumbrest off TSO and its not hard to rack.

 

But none of that matters in regards to this video, because what this video is, is a sales video. It is a man trying to sell you something. Pretend this is the guy at the gunshow trying to earn money to feed his family by selling you a gun. If you go to a video by a guy who sells Honda hop up parts and service, you can be assured that he will recommend a Honda over a Toyota.

(Or tuned Honda over a Porsche in this case).

 

I am sure the RI tuned by them is an excellent gun and product, as all their stuff seems to be,  but I doubt you are going to see a long line of CZ owners waiting to trade theirs in!

 

 

[chetc]

i sort of figured that way too,

 

chet

[je85]

34 minutes ago, chetc said:

i sort of figured that way too,

 

chet

The Rock Island will not get you the accuracy your looking for.

Have you tried a Cajun gunworks 10x bushing in your CZ sa yet?

The shadow 2 with a 10x bushing will be as accurate if not more than a tac sport orange.

Cz barrel lengths are not measured the same as other brands. CZ includes the feed ramp in their measurements.

Your 75 SA has a 4 7/16" barrel

shadow 2 is 4 5/8" barrel

Tac sport is around 5"

 

The shadow 2 can easily be converted to SA only.

$160 will get you a flat SA trigger a CGW race hammer or a CZC hammer along with springs and a extended FP.

With a little polishing you can easily get a sub 1 1/2lb trigger. With the right springs Ive gotten a CZ with this combo down to 12 ounces.

 

The shadow 2 is the best bang for the buck.

 

The ammo is the most important of all for accuracy.

Reloading is a must if you want to get the most out of any gun.

Edited April 25, 2019 by je85

[George16]

On 4/23/2019 at 11:12 AM, WoodrowAugustus said:

You could get a TSO and the frame side mounted optic.  There’s a thread in this forum from yesterday or so about that very thing.

 

Yup. That’s what I did to my TSO. I bought a CZC multi-optic mount and installed it on my TSO.

 

or you can use a czechmate mount/slide ride combo. I swap the czechmate mount with slide ride and test fitted it on the TSO and put the CZC multioptic mount on the Czech mate on this picture. Both are interchangeable.