Extractor tuning question

[ncrivello]

40 minutes ago, BrianATL said:

Undersized die

 

Interesting thought.  Using a regular Lee full length sizer on a 650 at the moment.  What was the verdict on Lee vs the EGW specified die.  I know Lee makes both, is there a difference?

 

edit: I'm wondering if it's a chamber issue, some anecdotal comments in my searches suggest that the RO's might have issues with this? 

Edited April 29, 2019 by ncrivello

[zzt]

The EGW die sizes smaller the the Lee U die.

 

I literally do not know anyone with an RO or Loaded who has chamber issues.  They also don't have extraction issues.  If you loaded up 700 rounds for a class and didn't clean in between, I'd look there first.

[ncrivello]

49 minutes ago, zzt said:

The EGW die sizes smaller the the Lee U die.

 

I literally do not know anyone with an RO or Loaded who has chamber issues.  They also don't have extraction issues.  If you loaded up 700 rounds for a class and didn't clean in between, I'd look there first.

The top end got a cleaning and lube before the class and then ran a boresnake through with another application of lube before day 2.  It was also clean before the practice session that had the same issue.  I had to forcibly eject the problem rounds.  

 

This is the first return to battery problem with this gun in the ~4k rounds I've put through it.  I have had extraction problems which led me to install the Aftec.  

 

Since some of my reloads pass the case gauge but not the plunk test, and others pass the plunk and not the case gauge leads me to think there is an unresolved ammo issue at hand.

 

Edit: After looking at this some more, it looks like some rounds will plunk on the first try and drop right out, but repeated attempts with the same round will fail.  Something isn't quite right and the case gauge isn't catching all of these.  

 

Should I try the U die?     

Edited April 30, 2019 by ncrivello

[zzt]

The U-dies are inexpensive, but they may not cure your problem.  Some of the 9mm Open shooters I shoot with bought special U-dies with the bottom ground off so they would size the case farther down.  The fact that a round can pass, then fail the plunk test tells me you are not removing all of the bulge.

 

My suggestion would be to buy 1000 fully processed cases from Ammoland or Shooters Connection.  You want something that has been push through sized or roll sized.  Load these up and go shoot them.  If you experience the problem again, a U-die won't solve it for you.

 

When the gun does not go into battery, there can be many causes, or combinations of causes.  If removing the mag makes clearing the jam easier, it most likely is not a 'chamber' issue.  It could be too weak a mag spring, or a new, too strong mag spring, or a feed lip problem.  It could also be a weak case problem where the bullet sets back after hitting the feed ramp.  It could also be an extractor/case rim problem.  A lot of striker fired pistols actually cut the case rim with their extractor hooks.  If you don't find and fix that burr, it could case problems.  Your recoil spring may be losing some weight.  Try a new one, or even go up a pound..

[Fo0]

 

 

1

On 4/25/2019 at 8:46 AM, zzt said:

  Do the shake test with an empty case inserted.  5-6 shakes before the case falls out is good.  More than that, you have too much tension.  Less that that is okay, but not ideal.

 

Is that super accurate?

[yigal]

u can ask about this cz or tan. engineers 

accurate extractor tuning for  production  can be made only with properly tuned   jig.

now 21 century not 19.

 

[zzt]

Fo0, yes, on a 1911 or 2011.  In an ideal world, the flat of the extractor should be just touching the rim of the case.  The hook should be well above the rim, and the hook nose should not be touching the case.

[ltdmstr]

3 hours ago, yigal said:

u can ask about this cz or tan. engineers 

accurate extractor tuning for  production  can be made only with properly tuned   jig.

now 21 century not 19.

 

 

Maybe that's the case with CZ and/or Tanfoglio.  But then again, engineers aren't always right.  When it comes to 1911/2011, I can get a lot better and more accurate result doing it by hand than with any tool.

[yigal]

8 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Maybe that's the case with CZ and/or Tanfoglio.  But then again, engineers aren't always right.  When it comes to 1911/2011, I can get a lot better and more accurate result doing it by hand than with any tool.

u have practical experience with 2011/1911  . and not many  engineers have it.

to tune 1 gun  u can do this by hand or using weigand jig  for tuning 1911 extractors properly  in  gun factory u need jig