S3 Xtreme Ignition Problems in SA

[AzNooB]

I have an S3 Xtreme that comes with a Delta hammer, EGD Xtreme Firing Pin, and Medium 15.5# EGD hammer spring. At about 1000 rounds in, I started getting light strikes. I'm at about 5000 rounds in now and it has progressively gotten worse in the last month. During my most recent class, I had 12 light strikes over the course of 1600 rounds. All of my light strikes were in Single Action, oddly enough.

 

The ammo I use is all factory Federal, Fiocchi, CCI Blazer, Magtech, S&B, or Winchester. Everything has had light strikes so far except Federal and Fiocchi. 

 

I have tried the following to no avail:

 

1. Cleaning the FP channel 
2. Light and Medium Xtreme FP springs
3. Removing the FP block per the instructor just to see if it was dragging on the firing pin

 

I figured the gun would work with most factory ammo in factory configuration, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I want to be able to shoot USPSA and IPSC with the same guns, so that leaves me only a couple of options:

 

1. Longer firing pin. Is the Unica firing pin longer than the Xtreme firing pin? This would be the easiest and least expensive option if it works.
2. Heavier hammer. Install the Titan hammer and hope primers pop reliably.
3. Heavier hammer spring. The trigger is a little over 8# in DA, and I really don't want to make it any heavier.

 

If someone can confirm that the Unica firing pin is longer, that may be the answer. Is there anything else I should be looking at?

• I contacted Tanfoglio and they confirmed that the Unica and Xtreme firing pin are the same dimensions. The only difference is the coating.

Edited April 16, 2019 by AzNooB

[JayTac556]

I have an S3 Xtreme that comes with a Delta hammer, EGD Xtreme Firing Pin, and Medium 15.5# EGD hammer spring. At about 1000 rounds in, I started getting light strikes. I'm at about 5000 rounds in now and it has progressively gotten worse in the last month. During my most recent class, I had 12 light strikes over the course of 1600 rounds. All of my light strikes were in Single Action, oddly enough.
 
The ammo I use is all factory Federal, CCI Blazer, Magtech, S&B, or Winchester. Everything has had light strikes so far except Federal. 
 
I have tried the following to no avail:
 

1. Cleaning the FP channel 
2. Light and Medium Xtreme FP springs
3. Removing the FP block per the instructor just to see if it was dragging on the firing pin

 
I figured the gun would work with most factory ammo in factory configuration, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I want to be able to shoot USPSA and IPSC with the same guns, so that leaves me only a couple of options:
 

1. Longer firing pin. Is the Unica firing pin longer than the Xtreme firing pin? This would be the easiest and least expensive option if it works.
2. Heavier hammer. Install the Titan hammer and hope primers pop reliably.
3. Heavier hammer spring. The trigger is a little over 8# in DA, and I really don't want to make it any heavier.

 
If someone can confirm that the Unica firing pin is longer, that may be the answer. Is there anything else I should be looking at?

I have an S3 Xtreme that comes with a Delta hammer, EGD Xtreme Firing Pin, and Medium 15.5# EGD hammer spring. At about 1000 rounds in, I started getting light strikes. I'm at about 5000 rounds in now and it has progressively gotten worse in the last month. During my most recent class, I had 12 light strikes over the course of 1600 rounds. All of my light strikes were in Single Action, oddly enough.
 
The ammo I use is all factory Federal, CCI Blazer, Magtech, S&B, or Winchester. Everything has had light strikes so far except Federal. 
 
I have tried the following to no avail:
 

1. Cleaning the FP channel 
2. Light and Medium Xtreme FP springs
3. Removing the FP block per the instructor just to see if it was dragging on the firing pin

 
I figured the gun would work with most factory ammo in factory configuration, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I want to be able to shoot USPSA and IPSC with the same guns, so that leaves me only a couple of options:
 

1. Longer firing pin. Is the Unica firing pin longer than the Xtreme firing pin? This would be the easiest and least expensive option if it works.
2. Heavier hammer. Install the Titan hammer and hope primers pop reliably.
3. Heavier hammer spring. The trigger is a little over 8# in DA, and I really don't want to make it any heavier.

 
If someone can confirm that the Unica firing pin is longer, that may be the answer. Is there anything else I should be looking at?

Hey I have had some firing issues in the past. You said here that DA is 8#. Have you tried replacing you hammer spring. The spring can be worn out. You dont necessarily have to go heavier but buying a few of the springs and replace them when you start getting light strikes. Not sure if you have tried this. I have a S3 and running a 14# PD hammer spring and dont usually have issues until I hit the 5K round mark.

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[aales1]

I replaced stock firing pin for extreme firing pin on my Stock 3 (small frame). From what I can tell dimensions are the same (extreme suppose to be 10% heavier).

I do not know about Unica firing pin, sorry.

[WvZ]

Have you tried to polish your FPB engagement surface and firing pin? I have almost the same setup in a PD tuned Stock 2 but with a titan hammer and will not ignite reliably anything mentioned on your post expect federal. After about 3k through it, it seems to work it self out and somewhat reliably ignite Blazer and S&B but still only run Federal TSJ in matches for reliability.

[johnbu]

I wonder if the ammo is too long for the barrel? Have you tested it in the barrel?

 

I would clean it, replace the hammer spring.

[AzNooB]

14 hours ago, johnbu said:

I wonder if the ammo is too long for the barrel? Have you tested it in the barrel?

 

I would clean it, replace the hammer spring.

 

How would I test the ammo in the barrel? 

 

ETA: Tanfoglio just informed me that the Unica firing pin is the same length as the Xtreme firing pin. The only difference is the coating if anyone was wondering.

Edited April 16, 2019 by AzNooB

[MemphisMechanic]

51 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

 

How would I test the ammo in the barrel? 

 

ETA: Tanfoglio just informed me that the Unica firing pin is the same length as the Xtreme firing pin. The only difference is the coating if anyone was wondering.

 

Plunk & spin test: pull the barrel out and drop a round in. It needs to drop in and spin freely, or you’ll have issues.

 

Tanfoglios have very short chambers and they can be problematic with some ammo.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[B_RAD]

56 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

 

How would I test the ammo in the barrel? 

 

ETA: Tanfoglio just informed me that the Unica firing pin is the same length as the Xtreme firing pin. The only difference is the coating if anyone was wondering.

Did you take the FP out and see if it's warped?  

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by B_RAD

[AzNooB]

24 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Plunk & spin test: pull the barrel out and drop a round in. It needs to drop in and spin freely, or you’ll have issues.

 

Tanfoglios have very short chambers and they can be problematic with some ammo.

 

 

I will have to give that a go tonight. I've never cleaned the barrel over its course of 5000 rounds.

 

22 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Did you take the FP out and see if it's warped?  

 

 

 

 

We looked at it briefly and it seemed straight to the naked eye. I'll have to roll it on a flat surface tonight to see if anything looks funny.

 

Strangely enough, my other S3X's firing pin was bent all to hell and still functioned. It's been at EAA under repair since January for different issues. 

[B_RAD]

4 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

 

I will have to give that a go tonight. I've never cleaned the barrel over its course of 5000 rounds.

 

 

We looked at it briefly and it seemed straight to the naked eye. I'll have to roll it on a flat surface tonight to see if anything looks funny.

 

Strangely enough, my other S3X's firing pin was bent all to hell and still functioned. It's been at EAA under repair since January for different issues. 

After seeing it not work for you in person, and knowing what you and the instructor did, my next guess would be bent FP or bullet profile/case length and chamber issue. 

 

If it's not a bent FP, look at the chamber maybe being out of spec.  If certain types of ammo work and others don't, what's the difference between bullet profile and case length for the ones that work and the Ines that don't?

 

I really thought removing the FPB was gonna solve it for you. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by B_RAD

[AzNooB]

I did the barrel plunk test with S&B 115gr FMJ and it spins freely. American Eagle 147gr AE9FP does not spin freely. 

 

How far is it supposed to stick out? 

 

The firing pin looks straight. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by AzNooB

[B_RAD]

1 hour ago, AzNooB said:

I did the barrel plunk test with S&B 115gr FMJ and it spins freely. American Eagle 147gr AE9FP does not spin freely. 

 

How far is it supposed to stick out? 

 

The firing pin looks straight. 

If one brands spins then it's chambering all the way. Take note of how far that sticks out. That should be your benchmark. 

 

You might call up Patriot defense and ask them how long thier ext FP is.  Measure yours.  If theirs is longer I'd buy that one and see if that solves the issue. 

 

I'm thinking your federal ammo bullet profile is why it wont spin. That flat point bullet shoulder/ogive is touching. The S&B is RN so it's not touching. That's why it spins. 

 

I'd also send that barrel to Patriot Defense to get reamed. 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by B_RAD

[JayTac556]

I did the barrel plunk test with S&B 115gr FMJ and it spins freely. American Eagle 147gr AE9FP does not spin freely. 
 
How far is it supposed to stick out? 
 
The firing pin looks straight. 

You shouldnt have to worry about the benchmark on how far the round sticks out. I had that issue....as I reload....if it spins and when you push the round in as far as it will go (ie: push it hard into the chamber) and then turn the barrel upside down. The round should fall out on it's own then those rounds will work fine. If it does not do this test then the round is "too long OAL"
@patriotdefense does a chamber team for cheap and worth it. They have a quick turn around as well.

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[JayTac556]

I did the barrel plunk test with S&B 115gr FMJ and it spins freely. American Eagle 147gr AE9FP does not spin freely. 
 
How far is it supposed to stick out? 
 
The firing pin looks straight. 

Also clean the chamber really well prior to the test...carbon build up will have a major factor with this test.

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[AzNooB]

Thing is... the ammo that spins freely is having problems. The ammo that doesn’t spin freely has been 100%. 

[B_RAD]

9 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

Thing is... the ammo that spins freely is having problems. The ammo that doesn’t spin freely has been 100%. 

Yes. Wierd but federal has the lightest primers.  

 

For about $60 you could have an ext FP and have the barrel reamed. 

 

Have you tried sticking the eraser end of a pencil down the barrel and pulling the trigger to see how high it flys out of the barrel?  A No2 pencil with a new eraser would be best. It should fly out a good ways. Just one more thing to check off the list.  

 

 

[johnbu]

Is the over travel screw set too tight?  I remove them

[MemphisMechanic]

19 hours ago, johnbu said:

Is the over travel screw set too tight?  I remove them

 

Good thought.

 

I personally would take the firing pin block and overtravel screw out of any malfunctioning Tanfo and test it that way, to verify those aren’t problems.

 

There’s no reason to run an overtravel screw in a Tanfo, and *definitely* no reason to run than a full turn of slack when setting it.

[AzNooB]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Good thought.

 

I personally would take the firing pin block and overtravel screw out of any malfunctioning Tanfo and test it that way, to verify those aren’t problems.

 

There’s no reason to run an overtravel screw in a Tanfo, and *definitely* no reason to run than a full turn of slack when setting it.

 

I loctited mine and it has been in the same position since I got the gun. I’ll take it out and see if anything changes. 

 

22 hours ago, B_RAD said:

Yes. Wierd but federal has the lightest primers.  

 

For about $60 you could have an ext FP and have the barrel reamed. 

 

Have you tried sticking the eraser end of a pencil down the barrel and pulling the trigger to see how high it flys out of the barrel?  A No2 pencil with a new eraser would be best. It should fly out a good ways. Just one more thing to check off the list.  

 

 

 

I reinstalled the FP block and used a ballpoint pen with the ballpoint facing the firing pin. The pen flies higher in SA than DA, but SA is where I’m getting all of my light strikes with live ammo. 

 

I even took my finger off the trigger as fast as possible to simulate rapid fire, and the pen launches equally as high. 

 

If I have to ream the barrel, is there a documented amount? I have 2 of these guns and there’s a good chance I’ll get more Tanfos for CO, so it’ll be worth getting a chamber reamer.

[B_RAD]

40 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

 

I loctited mine and it has been in the same position since I got the gun. I’ll take it out and see if anything changes. 

 

 

I reinstalled the FP block and used a ballpoint pen with the ballpoint facing the firing pin. The pen flies higher in SA than DA, but SA is where I’m getting all of my light strikes with live ammo. 

 

I even took my finger off the trigger as fast as possible to simulate rapid fire, and the pen launches equally as high. 

 

If I have to ream the barrel, is there a documented amount? I have 2 of these guns and there’s a good chance I’ll get more Tanfos for CO, so it’ll be worth getting a chamber reamer.

From what I understand it's easy to do. I've never done it so I can't comment. I'd guess you'd load up some ammo that's either longer in OAL or has a bullet profile that cuaseses issues. Then you'd ream a little, then plunk, then ream more if needed. 

 

Single action should hit harder.

 

 

Federal has the softest primers. So if they get hit at all, they should pop. 

 

The ammo with the harder primers are not having a problem with chambering from what you're saying. So, it seems like maybe it's not a chambering issue. 

 

You have any spent cases that show primer.strikes?  Wonder if the FP hole is off center?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by B_RAD

[MemphisMechanic]

You can’t use a Browell’s reamer on a Tanfoglio barrel due to the polygonal rifling. You need one with a pilot .001” smaller.

 

FYI.

 

I have one that works. Patriot has them too.

Edited April 18, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[johnbu]

3 hours ago, B_RAD said:

From what I understand it's easy to do. I've never done it so I can't comment. I'd guess you'd load up some ammo that's either longer in OAL or has a bullet profile that cuaseses issues. Then you'd ream a little, then plunk, then ream more if needed. 

 

Single action should hit harder.

 

 

Federal has the softest primers. So if they get hit at all, they should pop. 

 

The ammo with the harder primers are not having a problem with chambering from what you're saying. So, it seems like maybe it's not a chambering issue. 

 

You have any spent cases that show primer.strikes?  Wonder if the FP hole is off center?

 

 

 

 

 

Given the gun seems ok and most fails are in SA, the failure  "signature" seems to be ammo related.  i would measure the primer depth on every round of a box of ammo. My guess is that some will be high to flush. Tanfo's like them 0.005 to 0.008" below flush.

Mark all cases high, flush or near flush. Then fire them ALL in DA, that will show the highest possibility of failure.

Edited April 18, 2019 by johnbu

[B_RAD]

Patriot Defense is having a 20% off sale. 

 

Code: Easter20

[AzNooB]

12 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

You can’t use a Browell’s reamer on a Tanfoglio barrel due to the polygonal rifling. You need one with a pilot .001” smaller.

 

FYI.

 

I have one that works. Patriot has them too.

I don't see any chamber reamers on their site. I can only find the service to have a barrel reamed. Do you have a link for the blind?

 

10 hours ago, johnbu said:

Given the gun seems ok and most fails are in SA, the failure  "signature" seems to be ammo related.  i would measure the primer depth on every round of a box of ammo. My guess is that some will be high to flush. Tanfo's like them 0.005 to 0.008" below flush.

Mark all cases high, flush or near flush. Then fire them ALL in DA, that will show the highest possibility of failure.

I'm not sure if I'll have time to go to the range and do that before the Patriot 20% sale is over. I'm about ready to throw in a Titan hammer and see what happens lol.

 

14 hours ago, B_RAD said:

The ammo with the harder primers are not having a problem with chambering from what you're saying. So, it seems like maybe it's not a chambering issue. 

 

You have any spent cases that show primer.strikes?  Wonder if the FP hole is off center?

 

I don't keep spent brass but going off memory,  I don't recall primer strikes being noticeably off-center. 

[B_RAD]

26 minutes ago, AzNooB said:

I don't see any chamber reamers on their site. I can only find the service to have a barrel reamed. Do you have a link for the blind?

 

I'm not sure if I'll have time to go to the range and do that before the Patriot 20% sale is over. I'm about ready to throw in a Titan hammer and see what happens lol.

 

I don't keep spent brass but going off memory,  I don't recall primer strikes being noticeably off-center. 

I'd go ahead and buy one of their ext FP as well.