CZ Shadow 2 Slide Stop USPSA legal

[LP10]

Question for those who have more knowledge of production legal parts for USPSA. This slide stop ( https://cesar-shop.com/product/cz-shadow2-ts-short-thin-slide-stop-rami ) is being sold for the Shadow 2 with the Rami name. The original Rami slide stop is too small for the frame of the Shadow 2 and requires modification to fit. Someone had said that this one is larger to accommodate the larger frame (no fitting). This leads me to believe this is not from a Rami but is a manufactured part instead. Would this be part be USPSA production legal? 

 

Also, CZ makes a slide stop pin for the Czechmate. ( http://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/047000801604_Czechmate-Slide-Stop-Pin-No-Lever ) I am not sure if it fits in the Shadow 2 (I think close enough to TS), but this would be my ideal set up for my gun. Is this part considered production legal? 

 

Thanks

[muncie21]

From the 2019 Rule book, it appears that you can use aftermarket and/or parts from another production approved (not sure if Rami is or not) gun.

 

21.6 Exchange of minor EXTERNAL components Sights, firing pins, firing pin retainers, pins, extractors, magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties, triggers, hammers, bushings, and ejectors MAY be replaced with OFM or aftermarket parts. Exchange of OFM parts between different models of Production approved guns is allowed. 

[LP10]

5 minutes ago, muncie21 said:

From the 2019 Rule book, it appears that you can use aftermarket and/or parts from another production approved (not sure if Rami is or not) gun.

 

21.6 Exchange of minor EXTERNAL components Sights, firing pins, firing pin retainers, pins, extractors, magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties, triggers, hammers, bushings, and ejectors MAY be replaced with OFM or aftermarket parts. Exchange of OFM parts between different models of Production approved guns is allowed. 

Great, thank you. So that means both the aftermarket slide stop and the pin would be USPSA production legal then. Or does it have to be a part made for the Shadow 2 to be considered aftermarket? Or can you use aftermarket/factory parts from a non production approved gun (such as the Czechmate pin)?

Edited April 15, 2019 by LP10

[Red_Dot]

27 minutes ago, LP10 said:

Great, thank you. So that means both the aftermarket slide stop and the pin would be USPSA production legal then. Or does it have to be a part made for the Shadow 2 to be considered aftermarket? Or can you use aftermarket/factory parts from a non production approved gun (such as the Czechmate pin)?

Personally, I think the rule speaks for itself.

 

”Exchange of minor external components... MAY be replaced with OFM or aftermarket parts.” Period. Assuming it doesn’t add a restricted feature in the process (*thumb rest [generic]*, slide racker etc)

Edited April 15, 2019 by Red_Dot

[LP10]

I would hate to show up to a level 2 and be DQ'd for not understanding 21.6. I would agree with you, Red_Dot, based on that info. Just want to make sure as production can be tricky. 

 

Another thought, if I were to use the pin, that would cause the slide to close on an empty chamber/mag. Does the slide have to lock back in production? I did not see anything in the rule book, so I assume the answer is no?

[je85]

2 minutes ago, LP10 said:

I would hate to show up to a level 2 and be DQ'd for not understanding 21.6. I would agree with you, Red_Dot, based on that info. Just want to make sure as production can be tricky. 

 

Another thought, if I were to use the pin, that would cause the slide to close on an empty chamber/mag. Does the slide have to lock back in production? I did not see anything in the rule book, so I assume the answer is no?

Whats your reasoning to go with a low profile or pin for a production gun?

Pin will not lock the slide back.

Uspsa does not require the slide to lock back on a empty mag however I dont know why you would not want it to lock back in production.

 

[Red_Dot]

9 minutes ago, LP10 said:

I would hate to show up to a level 2 and be DQ'd for not understanding 21.6. I would agree with you, Red_Dot, based on that info. Just want to make sure as production can be tricky. 

 

Another thought, if I were to use the pin, that would cause the slide to close on an empty chamber/mag. Does the slide have to lock back in production? I did not see anything in the rule book, so I assume the answer is no?

I guess I’ll reiterate my point. I don’t think the rule is ambiguous at all.

 

if you’re really concerned, getting an official ruling via email from NROI would do it

[je85]

OP you can run any slide stop and even modify them but not sure about a pin.

Red_Dot is right on contacting NROI but good luck getting a straight answer back from them.

[LP10]

5 minutes ago, je85 said:

Whats your reasoning to go with a low profile or pin for a production gun?

Pin will not lock the slide back.

Uspsa does not require the slide to lock back on a empty mag however I dont know why you would not want it to lock back in production.

 

My left hand grips too high and far forward so that I accidently push the slide stop up when shooting. When I shot a Tanfo .40, I used the pin henning makes. For the Shadow 2, the only way it will work for me is to use the Rami part (thin). Using that Czechmate pin I just found would be ideal, the less in the way the better. 

[LP10]

1 minute ago, je85 said:

OP you can run any slide stop and even modify them but not sure about a pin.

Red_Dot is right on contacting NROI but good luck getting a straight answer back from them.

Exactly... NROI... Hence why I tried on here. 

 

Thanks

[je85]

I thought I had a high grip.

You could file down your current slide stop or get the Rami that your talking about. Either is good to go for production.

I would recommend using the Rami and have a pin with you. When you go to a major match go to the chrono booth before you start shooting and ask.

I would recommend doing that the day before you shoot or at the very least first thing in the morning before first shots.

 

Not to be an A$$ but if your bumping the slide stop up in recoil then you need to grip much harder. The gun should not shift in your hands at all.

 

[LP10]

6 minutes ago, je85 said:

I thought I had a high grip.

You could file down your current slide stop or get the Rami that your talking about. Either is good to go for production.

I would recommend using the Rami and have a pin with you. When you go to a major match go to the chrono booth before you start shooting and ask.

I would recommend doing that the day before you shoot or at the very least first thing in the morning before first shots.

 

Not to be an A$$ but if your bumping the slide stop up in recoil then you need to grip much harder. The gun should not shift in your hands at all.

 

It's not moving around in my hands, my left hand simply sits on the slide stop in natural grip position. Therefore it is pushing the slide stop up constantly, turning my pew pew into bolt action. Allows me to control the recoil exceptionally well compared to others. Google Bob Vogel and that should clear up the confusion on proper grip. M in production currently...

[muncie21]

1 hour ago, LP10 said:

I would hate to show up to a level 2 and be DQ'd for not understanding 21.6. I would agree with you, Red_Dot, based on that info. Just want to make sure as production can be tricky. 

 

Another thought, if I were to use the pin, that would cause the slide to close on an empty chamber/mag. Does the slide have to lock back in production? I did not see anything in the rule book, so I assume the answer is no?

First off, not meeting the rules for your division won't get you DQ'd from the match (unless a safety issue) however you would get bumped to open.

 

I don't think you would be able to use a pin (like TS/TSO/CM have) as none of those pistols are approved for Production.  If you tried to argue this was an aftermarket replacement part, you'd be kind of stuck because a pin does exactly the opposite of the part it's replacing. 

 

Best bet, IMO is to modify what you have, so it suits your grip.  I've seen people grind down the weak side of an ambi safety because it interfered with their grip.  As long as the safety is functional, you are still fine.  I propose the same logic would work for the slide lock.

[je85]

1 hour ago, LP10 said:

It's not moving around in my hands, my left hand simply sits on the slide stop in natural grip position. Therefore it is pushing the slide stop up constantly, turning my pew pew into bolt action. Allows me to control the recoil exceptionally well compared to others. Google Bob Vogel and that should clear up the confusion on proper grip. M in production currently...

I'm very familiar with the Bob Vogel grip

My grip is basically a Vogel grip except I keep my thumb on the frame right below the slide.

I also contact the safety and slide stop with my support hand but have never had issues.

 

[slavex]

the Rami is a 75 and it's parts, where they fit, are considered OEM parts for the other 75 guns. This new part though, is in fact made for the S2, although there are some issues with the first batches sent out, the pin is the right length but the paddle on the leg that engages the follower needs some fitting to allow the slide to move freely. There should be proper parts available soon. 

[hurley326]

On 4/15/2019 at 5:55 PM, je85 said:

I'm very familiar with the Bob Vogel grip

My grip is basically a Vogel grip except I keep my thumb on the frame right below the slide.

I also contact the safety and slide stop with my support hand but have never had issues.

 

same with me on this one. 

I would contact NROI for clarification. Although its so similar i doubt anyone will even question you. Not that you ever want to skirt the rules in that kind of way but I doubt anyone would even recognize the changed part to even lead into a rule dispute situation

[je85]

This explains everything.
Allowed replacement parts includes the slide stop.
Can be OFM or aftermarket part.
Aftermarket means anything you can buy or make.

The pin would be a no go because it's not technically a slide stop.

Rami slide stop is definitely good to go.
File down the stock slide stop would also be fine.

Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

[Buufu]

On 4/19/2019 at 3:13 AM, slavex said:

the Rami is a 75 and it's parts, where they fit, are considered OEM parts for the other 75 guns. This new part though, is in fact made for the S2, although there are some issues with the first batches sent out, the pin is the right length but the paddle on the leg that engages the follower needs some fitting to allow the slide to move freely. There should be proper parts available soon. 

 

I just got it today from Cesar-shop and it doesn’t seem to fit.  Slide gets stuck and won’t reset the trigger back to double action.

 

Anyone else get this yet? Any success or same result as me?

 

Any suggestions or ideas on making it work?

[rowdyb]

Totally legal part.

 

9 hours ago, Buufu said:

Slide gets stuck and won’t reset the trigger back to double action.

Can you describe further how it doesn't fit? I mean, you got it in..... Where and how is the slide getting stuck? While shooting or hand cycling?

[Buufu]

3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Totally legal part.

 

Can you describe further how it doesn't fit? I mean, you got it in..... Where and how is the slide getting stuck? While shooting or hand cycling?

 

Yea, the new  slide stop fits in.  But then the slide will barely budge afterwards.  So you won’t be able to pull the slide rearward fully to cycle the action.

 

Seems like it needs to be fitted by filing it down?

[je85]

25 minutes ago, Buufu said:

 

Yea, the new  slide stop fits in.  But then the slide will barely budge afterwards.  So you won’t be able to pull the slide rearward fully to cycle the action.

 

Seems like it needs to be fitted by filing it down?

Compare it to your old slide stop.

Its probably binding at the catch location.

The shadow 2 stop has a longer catch leg

 

Shadow 2 stop

SP01 stop

[rowdyb]

could always just chop short the short leg that is the stop/catch..... gun would never go to slide lock and would look normal from the outside.

 

was the new slide stop difficult to insert?

Edited April 21, 2019 by rowdyb

[Buufu]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

could always just chop short the short leg that is the stop/catch..... gun would never go to slide lock and would look normal from the outside.

 

was the new slide stop difficult to insert?

 

Yea, It seemed a little tighter and harder to push in than the stock one

[LP10]

That would mean the Cesar-shop part being sold for the Shadow 2 is not in fact made for the Shadow 2, false advertising. So they must be selling the normal Rami part for the SP01. The slide catch must be filed down to fit. 

[slavex]

nah CZ is the one at fault here, not Cesar. Other retailers are having the same problem. the part of the leg that engages the follower is the issue, it's too tight for the slide and needs 1/2mm removed from the inside side that rubs on the slide. The long leg that goes through the barrel lug is the right length too. I was using normal Rami ones in my practice gun for awhile, I had to remove a lot more material to get them to work though.